Oh the irony...

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm in that same camp. I read them. More power to those who want to pet them, massage them, and otherwise bend them to their will. There's plenty of room in this boat.

And "wrought" ? Really?? That's like a hop skip and jump from "rue the day," isn't it?

I'm in the manage my books group, but it's not like I spend a lot of time doing it. It takes less than a minute to load a book in Calibre and the deDRM is done automatically. I spend a lot less time managing my eBooks than I did managing my dead tree library. That I had to manually keep in order by category and author's name so I could find it again.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I spend a lot less time managing my eBooks than I did managing my dead tree library. That I had to manually keep in order by category and author's name so I could find it again.

I never did manage my dead tree books. They went on shelves, and then from shelves to boxes. no order, no rhyme or reason.

My ebook management was rather obsessive for a long time. Besides insuring that I had a DRM-free backup, I convinced myself that I could only read the books if they were formatted just so. With precise indents and line-heights and margins, and whatnot. Once I cured myself of that misconception, I stopped worrying about them altogether. Read 'em and move on. Only the most egregious of formatting issues will bother me enough to stop and "fix" these days.

And as for backing up ... I don't re-read that much. So in several years if there's something I'm ready to re-read and my retail DRMed copy will no longer work, there's always the library (e or p). And if worse comes to worse, I don't really mind rebuying favorite works from favorite authors if I absolutely have to. I repurchased all kinds of paper books that I lent out out to the wrong people, or just plain wore out over the years. *shrug*

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm in the manage my books group, but it's not like I spend a lot of time doing it. It takes less than a minute to load a book in Calibre and the deDRM is done automatically. I spend a lot less time managing my eBooks than I did managing my dead tree library. That I had to manually keep in order by category and author's name so I could find it again.

I have to admit I get possibly as much satisfaction from correctly organising and processing my books as from reading them

[Apache]

It is amazing the number of people who think that they have the right to set the merchants prices. One time a woman had a screaming fit in my store because I charged to do repairs.
Most people have know idea of the costs involved in selling merchandise. I have to pay rent, payroll, payroll taxes ( Federal Withholding, state withholding, Social Security, Medicare, Federal and state unemployment taxes), property taxes, sales taxes, Insurance, Utilities, Merchandise, tools and equipment (including maintenance), computers and POS Systems Cleaning supplies, receipts, bags, paper, phones, phone lines, Internet, Printers, showcases, Displays, Security Systems, Safes (3), Cameras and last but not least Toilet Paper. This was just off the top of my head and I have probably left off somethings.
Apache

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I have to admit I get possibly as much satisfaction from correctly organising and processing my books as from reading them

Me too. And it really bothers me when the formatting is not to my taste. I can't concentrate. I want to relax with the book, not to think about the formatting constantly. It's like an itch I cannot scratch, unless I fix the formatting before reading the damn book. Do I wish I would be able not to care about such things? Not really. I enjoy fiddling with my library.

As to back-ups, I like to re-read (depends on the book, of course). And I certainly don't want to buy my favorite books and series several times over. I have too many other things on which to spend my money, and I'm not really financially well-off. Besides, as I don't live in the US or UK, I'm not too sure about any future availability of digital goods. I remember too well when most digital movies and books were not (legally) available in my country.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Apache

It is amazing the number of people who think that they have the right to set the merchants prices. One time a woman had a screaming fit in my store because I charged to do repairs.
Most people have know idea of the costs involved in selling merchandise. I have to pay rent, payroll, payroll taxes ( Federal Withholding, state withholding, Social Security, Medicare, Federal and state unemployment taxes), property taxes, sales taxes, Insurance, Utilities, Merchandise, tools and equipment (including maintenance), computers and POS Systems Cleaning supplies, receipts, bags, paper, phones, phone lines, Internet, Printers, showcases, Displays, Security Systems, Safes (3), Cameras and last but not least Toilet Paper. This was just off the top of my head and I have probably left off somethings.
Apache

People tend to think in terms of what they want to pay, not in terms of what a product or service actually costs. In general, I suspect that a lot of people live from paycheck to paycheck and any unexpected expense causes an emotional reaction. They literally don't have the money to pay for it. That's one reason we have payday lenders. I worked one summer in a filling station. (for those younger readers, we actually use to have places where you both bought gas and had your car worked on). There was more than one car that sat in the back for a week or so until the owner scrapped enough money together to pay for the repair.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And as for backing up ... I don't re-read that much. So in several years if there's something I'm ready to re-read and my retail DRMed copy will no longer work, there's always the library (e or p). And if worse comes to worse, I don't really mind rebuying favorite works from favorite authors if I absolutely have to. I repurchased all kinds of paper books that I lent out out to the wrong people, or just plain wore out over the years. *shrug*

Yup. And I'll add two additional comments. At this point, most of my purchases come from either Kobo or Amazon. I'm not worried that either is going to shut its doors overnight, and certainly not until far in the future and with lots of notice (at which point I'd take a hard look at my libraries and download a very small percentage of them).

And re paper books: I think of all the books I've owned for decades, in many cases moved from one coast to the other and back again at great cost of time, exertion and expense, and why? The vast majority have never been reread. Now, many have deteriorated, certainly the print has gotten smaller and I'm very unlikely to reread more than a handful as I prefer ebooks anyway. All that effort and they're just gathering dust as I slowly dispose of them as I should have years ago. And who's to say what changes will take place that will render my current ebook library obsolete? The one thing I really don't worry about is that there will be books to read, so long as I'm able to read them.

[haertig]

I'm not so much worried about re-reads as I am about initial-reads. I've bought lots of eBooks over the years that I simply have not gotten around to reading yet. That's a crazy situation to be in, but it's the situation I am currently in. Some of these not-read-yet eBooks I purchased from B&N since my first eReader was a Nook. Now I use a Kindle. So I do have to "manage my collection" a little, so that I can eventually read these non-Kindle books I've paid for.

[Sirtel]

All the arguments going back and forth here re library-keeping and backing-up can be summed up with a couple of sentences: Managing an ebook library is like any other activity. There are people who enjoy it and people who don't. And so the dispute will never end.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

People tend to think in terms of what they want to pay, not in terms of what a product or service actually costs. In general, I suspect that a lot of people live from paycheck to paycheck and any unexpected expense causes an emotional reaction. They literally don't have the money to pay for it. That's one reason we have payday lenders. I worked one summer in a filling station. (for those younger readers, we actually use to have places where you both bought gas and had your car worked on). There was more than one car that sat in the back for a week or so until the owner scrapped enough money together to pay for the repair.

I really like the people who think my 40+ years of experience at jewelry repair should cost them the same as the jeweler down the street with one year training. And of course having to fix something that has been butchered ends up costing them more. Cheapest may save you money up front, but it can cost you a lot more in the long run.
Apache

[Raphi'Elohim]

Originally Posted by issybird

^^

Jeebus, you love to theorize out of your fundament. You know nothing at all about my reading habits and yet you feel confident characterizing them. In fact, just so you know, I read roughly half fiction and half nonfiction, history of the serious or academic variety.

Ok, sorry, I just saw your book club and surmised from that tenuously that you read fiction mostly.

Originally Posted by issybird

Briefly, price of ebooks has nothing at all to do with either the legality or morality of piracy. Which isn't either legal or moral, since it seems necessary to spell it out for you. As with any other good, if an ebook is too pricey for you, don't buy it. It's very easy. Moreover, and this bit I'm saying as a mod, advocacy of piracy is not condoned at MR, so don't.

Look, lady, no offense but I have been a techie hacker (not in the mass media's false idea of terrorist hacker that would be a cracker instead) since 1997. I think I have a better grip, probably, on internet culture and the future of the internet on the whole.

I am not advocating piracy I am just saying it is inevitable. Like I said there is a book called "The Inevitable: 12 Technological Forces that Will Change the Future" by Kevin Kelly a famous wired magazine editor and computer science expert that has a chapter 6 called 'sharing'. Basically, hackers have always fought to have all information free. See people like Julian Assange. Basically, it is baked into the culture of the internet from ancient hacker ethos and is going forward into the future so since it is inevitable book publishers need to be innovative on how to make money on it at another angle.

I have my pulse on the internet culture as a hacker which you might not have (there is also a 150 question quiz I took that shows I am a general computer expert but my photobucket account is down right now) :



Saying it is inevitable and promoting piracy are two different things.

Now, I have already bought the book in the past so it is not too pricey for me it is just illogical. For instance, if a paperback is only $15 dollars then it makes sense to sell the ebook for only $3 dollars at $13 but as books go up in price from $25 to $50 etc... the percentage knockoff should scale accordingly and that is just thinking perfectly logically in a mathematical way but most people are not perfectly logical.

[Raphi'Elohim]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

People tend to think in terms of what they want to pay, not in terms of what a product or service actually costs. In general, I suspect that a lot of people live from paycheck to paycheck and any unexpected expense causes an emotional reaction. They literally don't have the money to pay for it. That's one reason we have payday lenders. I worked one summer in a filling station. (for those younger readers, we actually use to have places where you both bought gas and had your car worked on). There was more than one car that sat in the back for a week or so until the owner scrapped enough money together to pay for the repair.

I am computer system administrator of servers and networks I make 6 figures a year but being such I am extremely mathematically minded. I can afford to pay for the book but it makes no sense why a static around $3 dollar knockoff from a physical book to an eBook should not scale percentage wise when you start paying $50 to $100 per book. Once the first ebook is generated it cost almost nothing to replicate it they are extremely cheap for the manufacturer.

Why should a $15 dollar book have a $3 dollar knockoff for a $13 ebook but that percentage should not scale to more of savings as you go up to $50 dollar books ? it makes no sense mathematically.

If you go to a store and it has a certain static percentage sale on items the more you pay for an item the more the discount will be.

[DiapDealer]

Moderator Notice
@Raphi'Elohim: please take the time to read our forum guidelines pertaining to restrictions on inline image sizes. And then take a large step back from the tone you've taken in response to reminders about our rules and guidelines. You may think Mobileread is a democracy where you're free to say and do whatever you want, but I can assure you that is not the case. You may have your finger on the "pulse" of internet culture, but you are woefully ignorant of the culture and rules here. Take some time to address that ignorance. Thank you.

[issybird]

@Raphi'Elohim: Good lord, I'm dying. Posting a picture that shows you got ten out ten in an internet quiz!

DiapDealer has already addressed the issues, but I'm going to add, do not, ever, address me again or any other woman on this board by saying, "Look, lady." I'll also note that when people preface remarks with "no offense," it signals that the ensuing comment is intentionally offensive.

[Tony1988]

Originally Posted by Raphi'Elohim

Ok, sorry, I just saw your book club and surmised from that tenuously that you read fiction mostly.



Look, lady, no offense but I have been a techie hacker (not in the mass media's false idea of terrorist hacker that would be a cracker instead) since 1997. I think I have a better grip, probably, on internet culture and the future of the internet on the whole.

I am not advocating piracy I am just saying it is inevitable. Like I said there is a book called "The Inevitable: 12 Technological Forces that Will Change the Future" by Kevin Kelly a famous wired magazine editor and computer science expert that has a chapter 6 called 'sharing'. Basically, hackers have always fought to have all information free. See people like Julian Assange. Basically, it is baked into the culture of the internet from ancient hacker ethos and is going forward into the future so since it is inevitable book publishers need to be innovative on how to make money on it at another angle.

I have my pulse on the internet culture as a hacker which you might not have (there is also a 150 question quiz I took that shows I am a general computer expert but my photobucket account is down right now) :

Attachment 172828

Saying it is inevitable and promoting piracy are two different things.

Now, I have already bought the book in the past so it is not too pricey for me it is just illogical. For instance, if a paperback is only $15 dollars then it makes sense to sell the ebook for only $3 dollars at $13 but as books go up in price from $25 to $50 etc... the percentage knockoff should scale accordingly and that is just thinking perfectly logically in a mathematical way but most people are not perfectly logical.

Attachment 172829

Ebooks offer stuff that physical books do not offer. So you are paying for that as well. I don't mind paying a few bucks less for an ebook. To be honest if pirating does indeed become an issue in the book world I would rather see publishers and authors NOT offer their wares in ebook format. Doesn't matter if it's inevitable or not.....it's wrong. Book authors do not have the luxury of musicians. They cannot make up lost money on tours that charge $150 a ticket.