Problems for Apple

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I pay cash for everything I can. Since interest rates have been negative for years, float has no value to me.

The 2% cash back I receive is my float's value.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I was also deprived of all the fun and games with Target, etc.

So was I. I don't shop there.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

From the article:



So who's going to absorb this extra fee -- credit card companies? merchants? customers?

Ultimately, the customer, always. But the merchants get blamed for the increase in prices, so they have an interest, as well.

The system they're working on themselves is QR Code based, which has never been well received. Time will tell, but neither system inspires me with confidence.

It will also be interesting to see how these system interact with the requirement that all cards be smart cards that's coming up.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Jessica Lares

I don't like WHY CVS and others are holding out (they want to make their own system),

They want to make their own because it will cost them less. Not much per sale, no, but with millions of sales per day, it adds up to a lot of money. If they can do it as well themselves (which is the big question), why should they pay a third party a cut for no added value?

[taustin]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

There is this one option to create an app that works on both iOS and Android that takes advantage of NFC which both can do. That would be perfect for everybody, except Apple and Google. Not going to happen though.

Actually, the system the consortium of retailers is working on should do exactly that, being QR Code based. All they need to do is write the app for both OSes, with the actual transaction taking place on the back end on a retailer's server (and without any third party getting a cut). How well it will work, and whether or not anybody will accept QR Code based stuff (finally) is another question, but their intent is pointed in the right direction.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by bla

The Ipad is overpriced and under powered plus the new iphone is eating some of the ipad market ... I just don't get this watch thing... if you have to cart the phone or ipad around anyway why bother? ditto for the android version .. but I suspect the hard core apple cultists will run out and buy it anyway ....

Their eventual goal is for the watch to be the phone. The technology to shrink a phone down that far isn't there yet, but it's very, very close. Apple (and everybody else) is doing their development research now, expecting the technology to be available shortly. Which is smart.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

What I look forward to most is not having my credit card replaced due to fraud at least once a year, as it has been recently. The retail location never sees my original credit card. They only see a one-time number. That alone is worth it to me. I can also 'carry' more credit cards this way than my Big Skinny wallet would be comfortable holding. Win win.

As of October of next year, any retailer that isn't on the new system, capable of accepting smart cards, is insane and not long for this work. And in that system, the retailers also never sees any card information. It's encrypted on the credit card pad, and all the retailer gets is a reference number. This will eliminate the rash of big retailers being hacked for millions of card numbers at a time, as the only place that will have those numbers is the banks themselves. (Who have also been hacked in the past, but not nearly as often.)

[taustin]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I don't like this one. It uses your checking account.

Which bypasses the legal protections the consumer has with a credit card. And puts the burden on the consumer to get accidents (like Apple Pay's double charge snafu last week) fixed.

Sounds like Apple Pay is great for consumers, and expensive for retailers, where CurrentC is great for retailers, and insanely stupid for consumers.

I guess I'll keep carrying credit cards for the foreseeable future. Or cash.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by taustin

They want to make their own because it will cost them less. Not much per sale, no, but with millions of sales per day, it adds up to a lot of money. If they can do it as well themselves (which is the big question), why should they pay a third party a cut for no added value?

Those third parties do add value. Sales. I understand why they want to cut credit cards out of the loop, which seems to be what this is about. But they haven't cut them out previously, because they can't afford the lost sales. I don't think CurrentC will turn out to be the end-run that they want it to be.

I certainly won't be giving them access to my bank account. I wouldn't have been willing even before all of the big retailer breaches that have been in the news.

The question is, as I see it: Why would I want the extra hassle and decreased security of their cludgy system?

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Skip Wyona

CurrentC does not use credit cards so there is no 2-3% fee charged to the selling business. Instead your purchase costs are directly subtracted from your bank account as a debit charge. The business owner that sells you the product is charged nothing.

If it's done as a debit charge specifically, that isn't true. There are fees. They are lower than for credit cards, and rightly so (the bank doesn't have to cover up to 30 days of interest free float, and in fact, gets a couple of days of float for themselves usually), but there are fees.

There are other options for getting money from your checking account to theirs, and I have no idea what the fee structure is on those (and most are not all that readily available to US merchants, but we're talking some of the biggest retailers in the US here), but when money moves from one bank account to another, there are always fees of some kind. That is how banks operate.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I don't want money ever taken directly from my checking account for purchases with no pin necessary. I could never understand all those commercials about the Visa check card. They advertised that you could have the money taken directly from your checking account with no pin or ID required! Like that's a good thing?!? The only mac card I have is an old one that no longer works for purchases. I use one of my credit cards for all purchases I will pay in full every month. That way I use their money for free.

Any debit card that has a Visa or MasterCard logo on it can be processed as a credit card - no PIN (unless there's some very weird condition to the merchant's account that says otherwise, or your bank is insane). Merchants prefer not to, because the fees are higher, and they might not get their money as quickly, but the banks lover it because the fees are higher and the merchant might not get their money as quickly. For the consumer, it isn't much different (as long as banks continue to offer the same protections as for credit cards, even though they aren't forced to be law).

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

Those third parties do add value. Sales.

In the case of Apple Pay, that remains to be seen. The idea is that they can do the same thing (as far as the consumer is concerned) themselves, and reduce costs, not increase them.

Originally Posted by Fluribus

I understand why they want to cut credit cards out of the loop, which seems to be what this is about. But they haven't cut them out previously, because they can't afford the lost sales. I don't think CurrentC will turn out to be the end-run that they want it to be.

I don't either, but the consortium clearly does.

Originally Posted by Fluribus

I certainly won't be giving them access to my bank account. I wouldn't have been willing even before all of the big retailer breaches that have been in the news.

I agree. I'll start carrying cash first.

Originally Posted by Fluribus

The question is, as I see it: Why would I want the extra hassle and decreased security of their cludgy system?

I feel the same way about Apple Pay.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by taustin

Any debit card that has a Visa or MasterCard logo on it can be processed as a credit card - no PIN (unless there's some very weird condition to the merchant's account that says otherwise, or your bank is insane). Merchants prefer not to, because the fees are higher, and they might not get their money as quickly, but the banks lover it because the fees are higher and the merchant might not get their money as quickly. For the consumer, it isn't much different (as long as banks continue to offer the same protections as for credit cards, even though they aren't forced to be law).

It is much different for consumers. If your debit card or number is stolen and used the money is gone from your account until the bank replaces it by which time your mortgage payment and other checks can bounce. If someone steals my credit card info the only thing I lose is the time to get the card replaced.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

It is much different for consumers. If your debit card or number is stolen and used the money is gone from your account until the bank replaces it by which time your mortgage payment and other checks can bounce. If someone steals my credit card info the only thing I lose is the time to get the card replaced.

If you use your debit card as a credit card (which is what I was talking about), it is a debit card so far as you are concerned. The money comes out of your bank account immediately, and if it's fraudulent, it's handled the same as if it were used as a debit card.

It's the best of both worlds for your bank.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by taustin

I feel the same way about Apple Pay.

I don't have an iPhone, actually I don't have any smartphone, but it seems pretty slick from what I've read. Shooting a bunch of one-time tokens around to enable payment seems like a good security step.