When is Calibre going to support ePub 3?

bbguy · 03-16-2017, 04:29 PM

I need Calibre to create proper ePub footnotes.

theducks · 03-16-2017, 06:42 PM

Calibre won't put in something that is not there already.

AFAIK The editor will not stop you from hand coding footnotes...
even with errors

bbguy · 03-16-2017, 10:01 PM

What?

I'm saying if I convert a document like Word file (with footnotes) I'd like those footnotes to be converted into ePub 3 compliant footnotes using the "aside" tag/element rather than creating a separate hidden page.

kovidgoyal · 03-17-2017, 01:58 AM

There is nothing hidden about the footnotes page. It is the aside element that would need to be hidden. And in fact, even if calibre output epub 3, footnotes would not be put in aside elements as that is just less broadly compatible and offers no actual benefits.

About the only thing that would change when outputting for epub3 is the footnotes would have the added epub 3 specific epub:type annotation -- which is really not required for any halfway decent epub reading software. Detecting footnotes using heuristics works great in most readers.

bbguy · 03-17-2017, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

There is nothing hidden about the footnotes page. It is the aside element that would need to be hidden. And in fact, even if calibre output epub 3, footnotes would not be put in aside elements as that is just less broadly compatible and offers no actual benefits.

The current iBooks specs require footnotes as asides. The benefit: it easier to create and update footnotes when dealing with raw HTML.

Quote:

About the only thing that would change when outputting for epub3 is the footnotes would have the added epub 3 specific epub:type annotation -- which is really not required for any halfway decent epub reading software. Detecting footnotes using heuristics works great in most readers.

Heuristic detection is not as reliable as semantic/valid code. And platforms like iBooks have strict requirements.

EPUB 3 is the new standard. I don't understand why you would resist making your software compatible with the modern specifications.

darryl · 03-17-2017, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbguy

EPUB 3 is the new standard. I don't understand why you would resist making your software compatible with the modern specifications.

This topic has been done to death. Kovid has stated his reasons for not supporting epub3, and for what it is worth I agree with him 100%. If you are interested see the discussion of this issue at https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=260467

A search of the forum using the keywords "calibre" and "epub3" will turn up other relevant threads, including some specifically on footnotes.

Personally I would hate to see Kovid waste his valuable time on implementing this ridiculous standard. As he himself points out, Calibre is open source, so if you or someone else wants to make the effort I'm sure he would consider it for inclusion.

kovidgoyal · 03-17-2017, 01:27 PM

There is no such thing as an ibooks spec. And if there were is would be irrelevant since calibre outpus epub not ibooks.

The only spec I know of is the epub one and that most emphatically does not *require* footnotes to be in aside elements. The only thing it *recommends* -- and note that recommends does not mean requires, is marking footnotes using epub:type annotations.

Which incidentally it is trivial to do by a bit of postprocessing of the epub output calibre generates if you really want to. calibre marks footnotes and links to them with clear class names, when converting from docx. Just create a couple of saved searches in the calibre editor/Sigil to find those and add the epub:type annotations -- nad there you go. epub 3 footnotes at the click of button.

All that said, I have nothing against adding epub 3 output support to calibre, I just dont see it as worth my time. And iBooks requiring epub:type annotations to popup footnotes is not going to change my opinion on that, I'm afraid.

But as darryl said, calibre is open source, patches are welcome. I'm even willing to provide guidance on implementation if needed.

JSWolf · 03-17-2017, 08:11 PM

iBooks specific code isn't ePub.

compurandom · 03-18-2017, 10:29 AM

So, if there is a way to mark something as a footnote, is there a way to mark it as NOT a footnote? I use calibre recipes to pull rss feeds for my kobo, and sometimes embedded TOC entries act as footnotes instead of going to the article. I'd like a way to modify the recipes to suppress this.

kovidgoyal · 03-18-2017, 11:31 PM

The same epub:type annotation that is used for footnotes can also be used to indicate a link is not a footnote. However, other than the calibre viewer, I dont know of any other reeaders that actually respect that -- though perhaps the kobo one does, I haven't tried it.

03-16-2017, 04:29 PM	#1
bbguy Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2017 Device: Kindle	When is Calibre going to support ePub 3? I need Calibre to create proper ePub footnotes.

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03-16-2017, 06:42 PM	#2
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,803 Karma: 54830978 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	Calibre won't put in something that is not there already. AFAIK The editor will not stop you from hand coding footnotes... even with errors

03-16-2017, 10:01 PM	#3
bbguy Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2017 Device: Kindle	What? I'm saying if I convert a document like Word file (with footnotes) I'd like those footnotes to be converted into ePub 3 compliant footnotes using the "aside" tag/element rather than creating a separate hidden page.

03-17-2017, 01:58 AM	#4
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	There is nothing hidden about the footnotes page. It is the aside element that would need to be hidden. And in fact, even if calibre output epub 3, footnotes would not be put in aside elements as that is just less broadly compatible and offers no actual benefits. About the only thing that would change when outputting for epub3 is the footnotes would have the added epub 3 specific epub:type annotation -- which is really not required for any halfway decent epub reading software. Detecting footnotes using heuristics works great in most readers.

03-17-2017, 01:27 PM	#7
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	There is no such thing as an ibooks spec. And if there were is would be irrelevant since calibre outpus epub not ibooks. The only spec I know of is the epub one and that most emphatically does not require footnotes to be in aside elements. The only thing it recommends -- and note that recommends does not mean requires, is marking footnotes using epub:type annotations. Which incidentally it is trivial to do by a bit of postprocessing of the epub output calibre generates if you really want to. calibre marks footnotes and links to them with clear class names, when converting from docx. Just create a couple of saved searches in the calibre editor/Sigil to find those and add the epub:type annotations -- nad there you go. epub 3 footnotes at the click of button. All that said, I have nothing against adding epub 3 output support to calibre, I just dont see it as worth my time. And iBooks requiring epub:type annotations to popup footnotes is not going to change my opinion on that, I'm afraid. But as darryl said, calibre is open source, patches are welcome. I'm even willing to provide guidance on implementation if needed.

03-17-2017, 08:11 PM	#8
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,983 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	iBooks specific code isn't ePub.

03-18-2017, 10:29 AM	#9
compurandom Guru Posts: 919 Karma: 417282 Join Date: Jun 2015 Device: kobo aura h2o, kobo forma	So, if there is a way to mark something as a footnote, is there a way to mark it as NOT a footnote? I use calibre recipes to pull rss feeds for my kobo, and sometimes embedded TOC entries act as footnotes instead of going to the article. I'd like a way to modify the recipes to suppress this.

03-18-2017, 11:31 PM	#10
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	The same epub:type annotation that is used for footnotes can also be used to indicate a link is not a footnote. However, other than the calibre viewer, I dont know of any other reeaders that actually respect that -- though perhaps the kobo one does, I haven't tried it.