Cannot get pop-up footnotes to appear on Android Kindles

Deane · 04-03-2020, 05:37 PM

I've been trying to get pop-up footnotes work on my MOBI file. It's really hit or miss.

They DO work on an E Ink Kindle I have (not sure what model -- I think it's just the most basic Kindle). They also work in Calibre.

They DO NOT work in two different Android Kindle apps. In both these apps, the footnote reference link sends you back to where the note is located at the end of the chapter (like a normal footnote would).

However, on both these Kindle apps, I am reading other books that DO have pop-up footnotes, so I know it's possible. I just can't peek inside those books to see what HTML they used.

(I can't check my footnotes in Cloud Reader or Kindle for PC because I can only load and test my MOBI as a document, not a book, and documents don't show up in either of those platforms.)

Here is my code for the note reference:

Code:

<a href="#fn1" class="footnote-ref" epub:type="noteref" id="footnote-1-ref">[1]</a>

Here is the note itself (again, it's at the end of the chapter)

Code:

<aside id="fn1" class="footnote" epub:type="footnote">
   <a href="#footnote-1-ref" class="footnote-number">[1]</a>
   Note content here...
</aside>

What is the trick to this?

Notjohn · 04-04-2020, 11:06 AM

As I understand it, the book must be enabled for Enhanced Typesetting. Perhaps that happens only in the course of publishing it? Let's hope JHowell replies! He would know.

Deane · 04-04-2020, 11:11 AM

When I open my MOBI in Kindle Previewer, I get the "Enhanced Typesetting" checkbox in the left column, so I think I have that. Also, pop-up footnotes DO work in Kindle Previewer.

And I just realized how to open my MOBI in Kindle for PC. They do NOT work there.

jhowell · 04-04-2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deane

I've been trying to get pop-up footnotes work on my MOBI file. It's really hit or miss.

There are inconsistencies in how different Kindle apps and devices handle footnotes. Different renderers are used based on the Kindle book format in use.

An e-ink Kindle running firmware 5.12.4 will produce popup footnotes in either KF8 or KFX format, but not MOBI7.

Kindle for PC version 1.28 and Kindle for Android version 8.29 will produce popup footnotes in KFX format, but not MOBI7 or KF8.

Deane · 04-04-2020, 05:21 PM

I'm using KindleGen. I did notice this:

Code:

I1041: The file format version is V6

Later:

Code:

The file format version is V8

Is there anyway to force it to generate KFX, or convert it to such?

Deane · 04-04-2020, 05:30 PM

I'm using KindleGen. I did notice this:

Code:

I1041: The file format version is V6

Later:

Code:

The file format version is V8

Is there anyway to force it to generate KFX, or convert it to such?

Deane · 04-04-2020, 05:32 PM

I've been doing some Googling, and it seems that Amazon might do some voodoo when the MOBI is uploaded to KDP. It seems that the "book" customers purchase and download is not necessarily the same as the "document" I uploaded in an attempt to preview my book.

Is this true? Is there a chance that Amazon will actually deliver a more advanced (KFX?) version of my MOBI to purchasers?

jhowell · 04-04-2020, 06:16 PM

Kindlegen produces a Master MOBI, which includes both the older MOBI7 and newer KF8 formats in one file. If you sideload that file those Kindle apps and devices that support KF8 will use the KF8 part and the rest (mainly older Kindles and the Kindle for iOS app) will use the MOBI7 part.

When you publish a book on Amazon the publishing process produces additional formats, usually KCR and KFX. KFX, the format behind Enhanced Typesetting, is sent to most newer apps and devices. KCR is sent to the Kindle Cloud Reader and sometimes to Kindle for iOS.

Amazon does not provide a method to produce your own KFX files for testing. Instead the Kindle Previewer produces a variant of KFX (called KPF) and uses that to show how the book will look on newer Kindle apps and devices. As an alternative I have developed the KFX Output calibre plugin to allow the generation of KFX files for personal use and testing, however the Kindle Previewer should be sufficient for most purposes.

Deane · 04-04-2020, 06:32 PM

That's helpful, thank you.

Quoth · 04-05-2020, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deane

I've been doing some Googling, and it seems that Amazon might do some voodoo when the MOBI is uploaded to KDP. It seems that the "book" customers purchase and download is not necessarily the same as the "document" I uploaded in an attempt to preview my book.

Is this true? Is there a chance that Amazon will actually deliver a more advanced (KFX?) version of my MOBI to purchasers?

No, they don't deliver the mobi file.
They recommended I use validated epub2 for upload rather than any sort of mobi or doc or docx.

If people get KFX (which is a nasty format), then they get all the enhanced KFX rendering. The Kindles COULD do the same popups, (optionally page numbers) and enhanced rendering with EXISTING AZW/KF8 , but Amazon hasn't enabled it in the firmware / apps. KFX is really about reducing Whispernet costs and increased DRM, even when a Publisher has requested no DRM.

The SAME user with same model Kindle may receive KFX OR azw/KF8 or both by using either direct (KFX over WiFi or Mobile) or Download to PC (actually ANY device and OS able to do downloads and be a USB host). Assuming the Firmware supports KFX or AZW. Earlier Kindles always get mobi files (but simple ones without KF8 info).
The Download option so far only gives azw/KF8 to later kindles and mobi (KF7?) to earlier kindles. Don't know about the apps, not used them for years.

j.p.s · 04-05-2020, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

No, they don't deliver the mobi file.
They recommended I use validated epub2 for upload rather than any sort of mobi or doc or docx.

If people get KFX (which is a nasty format), then they get all the enhanced KFX rendering. The Kindles COULD do the same popups, (optionally page numbers) and enhanced rendering with EXISTING AZW/KF8 , but Amazon hasn't enabled it in the firmware / apps. KFX is really about reducing Whispernet costs and increased DRM, even when a Publisher has requested no DRM.

I've read many books from amazon in azw3/KF8 with popup footnotes.

Also, it is my understanding that KFX books a usually significantly larger than KF8 books.

Hitch · 04-05-2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deane

When I open my MOBI in Kindle Previewer, I get the "Enhanced Typesetting" checkbox in the left column, so I think I have that. Also, pop-up footnotes DO work in Kindle Previewer.

And I just realized how to open my MOBI in Kindle for PC. They do NOT work there.

If the popup footnotes do work in KP3 (Kindle Previewer) then they will work in any--ANY--reading app or device that supports it.

There are innumerable functions that only work in KP3, that do not/will not work in the pre-processing MOBI file. If you see it in KP3, there's an excellent chance that it will indeed work in the for-sale file.

It's like enhanced typesetting--you can only see it in KP3, not in the MOBI that you made, or even a mobi that you then export from KP3. But it's there in the for-sale device. Amazon's gone to some lengths to ensure that the final "touches" are only created in the Publishing Workflow (PW), which happens AFTER you hit 'save and publish.'

Hitch

Quoth · 04-05-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I've read many books from amazon in azw3/KF8 with popup footnotes.

My point was meant to be that KFX isn't the issue but that Amazon delivers to customers something different to the upload and to the KDP preview, unless you email it to your kindle.

They are lacking in clarity. As am I!

Hitch · 04-05-2020, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

My point was meant to be that KFX isn't the issue but that Amazon delivers to customers something different to the upload and to the KDP preview, unless you email it to your kindle.

They are lacking in clarity. As am I!

Dahlink:

Even if you email it to your Kindle, you won't get "the real thing."

FWIW.

Hitch

Deane · 04-10-2020, 12:10 PM

I just want to close out this thread to say that when my book published in Amazon, I went and bought the Kindle version. This means I got it delivered as a "book" instead of a "document" as I had been previewing it.

It was very different. Hyphenation works correctly now, as do the pop-up footnotes.

So the lesson learned, as others have pointed out above, is that you can't really preview your book in the exact way people are going to experience it when they buy it from Amazon. There's some "magic voodoo" that happens to your book when Amazon sells it in their store.

Thanks to everyone who contributed here.

04-03-2020, 05:37 PM	#1
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	Cannot get pop-up footnotes to appear on Android Kindles I've been trying to get pop-up footnotes work on my MOBI file. It's really hit or miss. They DO work on an E Ink Kindle I have (not sure what model -- I think it's just the most basic Kindle). They also work in Calibre. They DO NOT work in two different Android Kindle apps. In both these apps, the footnote reference link sends you back to where the note is located at the end of the chapter (like a normal footnote would). However, on both these Kindle apps, I am reading other books that DO have pop-up footnotes, so I know it's possible. I just can't peek inside those books to see what HTML they used. (I can't check my footnotes in Cloud Reader or Kindle for PC because I can only load and test my MOBI as a document, not a book, and documents don't show up in either of those platforms.) Here is my code for the note reference: Code: <a href="#fn1" class="footnote-ref" epub:type="noteref" id="footnote-1-ref">[1]</a> Here is the note itself (again, it's at the end of the chapter) Code: <aside id="fn1" class="footnote" epub:type="footnote"> <a href="#footnote-1-ref" class="footnote-number">[1]</a> Note content here... </aside> What is the trick to this?

04-04-2020, 05:21 PM	#5
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	I'm using KindleGen. I did notice this: Code: I1041: The file format version is V6 Later: Code: The file format version is V8 Is there anyway to force it to generate KFX, or convert it to such?

04-04-2020, 05:30 PM	#6
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	I'm using KindleGen. I did notice this: Code: I1041: The file format version is V6 Later: Code: The file format version is V8 Is there anyway to force it to generate KFX, or convert it to such?

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04-04-2020, 11:06 AM	#2
Notjohn mostly an observer Posts: 1,510 Karma: 987654 Join Date: Dec 2012 Device: Kindle	As I understand it, the book must be enabled for Enhanced Typesetting. Perhaps that happens only in the course of publishing it? Let's hope JHowell replies! He would know.

04-04-2020, 11:11 AM	#3
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	When I open my MOBI in Kindle Previewer, I get the "Enhanced Typesetting" checkbox in the left column, so I think I have that. Also, pop-up footnotes DO work in Kindle Previewer. And I just realized how to open my MOBI in Kindle for PC. They do NOT work there.

04-04-2020, 05:32 PM	#7
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	I've been doing some Googling, and it seems that Amazon might do some voodoo when the MOBI is uploaded to KDP. It seems that the "book" customers purchase and download is not necessarily the same as the "document" I uploaded in an attempt to preview my book. Is this true? Is there a chance that Amazon will actually deliver a more advanced (KFX?) version of my MOBI to purchasers?

04-04-2020, 06:16 PM	#8
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,054 Karma: 78004057 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Florida Device: Oasis 2, iPad, Nexus 7	Kindlegen produces a Master MOBI, which includes both the older MOBI7 and newer KF8 formats in one file. If you sideload that file those Kindle apps and devices that support KF8 will use the KF8 part and the rest (mainly older Kindles and the Kindle for iOS app) will use the MOBI7 part. When you publish a book on Amazon the publishing process produces additional formats, usually KCR and KFX. KFX, the format behind Enhanced Typesetting, is sent to most newer apps and devices. KCR is sent to the Kindle Cloud Reader and sometimes to Kindle for iOS. Amazon does not provide a method to produce your own KFX files for testing. Instead the Kindle Previewer produces a variant of KFX (called KPF) and uses that to show how the book will look on newer Kindle apps and devices. As an alternative I have developed the KFX Output calibre plugin to allow the generation of KFX files for personal use and testing, however the Kindle Previewer should be sufficient for most purposes.

04-04-2020, 06:32 PM	#9
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	That's helpful, thank you.

04-10-2020, 12:10 PM	#15
Deane Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2020 Device: Kindle	I just want to close out this thread to say that when my book published in Amazon, I went and bought the Kindle version. This means I got it delivered as a "book" instead of a "document" as I had been previewing it. It was very different. Hyphenation works correctly now, as do the pop-up footnotes. So the lesson learned, as others have pointed out above, is that you can't really preview your book in the exact way people are going to experience it when they buy it from Amazon. There's some "magic voodoo" that happens to your book when Amazon sells it in their store. Thanks to everyone who contributed here.

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