What would make Kobo surpass Kindle?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I have the K4, non touch kindle and it is still going strong.

Same here. Mine is black, so I don't know if it's a K5 or a K4 Non Touch.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by lightbulbjim

I don't think it's any different. If you buy from the Kobo store you get DRMed ePubs. If you buy from the Kindle store you get DRMed Mobis. No extra software is required in either case.

If you're talking about buying DRMed ePubs from sources other than the Kobo store, then fair enough. But that's not an option for Kindle either.

I guess I wasn't clear, but that was my point. Neither the Kindle nor the Kobo (or, for that matter, the Nook) are open for DRM eBooks. Amazon uses their proprietary DRM and the ePub companies use Adobe's proprietary DRM. Kobo just automates the process if you buy from Kobo, as B&N does when you buy from them.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I guess I wasn't clear, but that was my point. Neither the Kindle nor the Kobo (or, for that matter, the Nook) are open for DRM eBooks. Amazon uses their proprietary DRM and the ePub companies use Adobe's proprietary DRM. Kobo just automates the process if you buy from Kobo, as B&N does when you buy from them.

I'm a bit more confused about what you are saying after this. So...

Kobo supports two types of DRM. One is Adobe DRM and can be on any book purchased from them and downloaded from the web-site. This will be the same DRM as nearly every other shop or library that supports Adobe DRM. And will work the same as buying from other shops that support Adobe DRM. The "nearly every" is because B&N uses some different part of the Adobe DRM, so you might not be able to sideload these to other devices using ADE.

Kobo also have their own DRM for books downloaded directly to their devices or apps. This is unrelated to the Adobe DRM and is at least partly to avoid licence fees to Adobe. This is closer to what Amazon is doing with the Kindle than other companies do with Adobe DRM.

Now, my confusion is that I don't understand what you mean by "just automates the process". I don't see Kobo's handling of Adobe DRM protected books, either during purchase/download or during the sideloading to their devices, any different to other companies.

[anacreon]

Added to the Amazon lock-in and the very poor rendering, another reason I've kept out of kindles is the mish-mash they make of converting epubs to their proprietary formats - which by the way is usually much more space consuming than the originals.
It is ok for plain texts, but some complex books (with notes, tables, extensive TOCs and such) don't work.

One thing I would exchange kobos for kindles otherwise is their dictionaries. I make do with what kobo have (I've carefully kept the good Italian dictionary they had initially), and the extras I found in mobileread, but it is still a disaster for German. I'd be willing to pay for a good German dictionary. Presently, I have to make do with the German-English dictionary, because most words I search for are not in the German one. It is not enough to balance the above objections.

[mathil]

And then there's me, with a PW3 slowing down and then spontaneously rebooting itself every few hours of reading Japanese books (= reason I bought the device in the first place) because apparently I use the dictionary too much. And four Kobos from different generations in the house still going strong, never had a problem, never a break. What am I supposed to say about software stability?

The Amazon ecosystem is also dependent on location to be decisive in the choice to make. Here in Italy book prices are the same everywhere, so no cheaper books on Amazon; library books are only available in .epub format; the Goodreads integration is not available. You can't see a physical Kindle unless you buy it from Amazon, but you'll find Kobos on display literally in every bookstore.
What's left? Whispersync also for sideloaded books and better dictionaries. Are these truly enough to make a difference in this context, for the regular user?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I can't speak for more recent Kobos, but the Kobo Glo I owned was frustrating in that I had to tap the screen twice most the time to get it to turn the page. Very irritating. The software always felt "half done" to me. The Kindles I've owned (and own) on the other hand seem (-ed) more solid. The Glo had a tendency to lock up (maybe a couple times a week), something that hardly ever happens with my Kindles. The reason I tried the Glo was for the flexibility, but I found I preferred reliability more. Again, this was the Glo and I realize that it's a few generations back now. But the Kindles I use and used (except for the Basic, Generation 8) are just as old (some older) than the Glo. And they're still rock solid.

Sounds like you had a defective Glo. I've read of problems with just about every brand/model Reader.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

And then there's those of us who use Linux and (unless we go through the trouble of installing Wine and trying to get ADE to work) we're shut out of DRM ePubs because of its proprietary Adobe ecosystem. No such problem using Kindles. Most places where non-DRM ePubs are provided also have the mobi versions or (at least) the non-DRM ePubs can be easily converted to mobi. So, either way, we're in a proprietary system for DRM books. Either Amazon or Adobe. Amazon is easier.

You choose to use Linux which is not nearly as good with eBooks as Windows. Windows is just easier to use. It's not Adobe's fault you use Linux. It's your fault. It's not Adobe's fault that Wine is a pain to get ADE 2.0.1 working. It's your fault because you chose Linux. Nobody forced you to use Linux. So don't complain about ADE just because you chose Linux.

[llcj]

Originally Posted by rcentros

The current (sale) price of a refurbished Voyage (with full warranty) is currently $120 in the U.S.

Yes, in the U.S. Amazon.ca does not sell refurbished Voyages. Amazon.com will not ship refurbished Voyages to Canada. I could probably check eBay, but for something like this I would rather get it from Amazon.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Kobo also have their own DRM for books downloaded directly to their devices or apps. This is unrelated to the Adobe DRM and is at least partly to avoid licence fees to Adobe. This is closer to what Amazon is doing with the Kindle than other companies do with Adobe DRM.

Now, my confusion is that I don't understand what you mean by "just automates the process". I don't see Kobo's handling of Adobe DRM protected books, either during purchase/download or during the sideloading to their devices, any different to other companies.

I didn't realize that Kobo had their own proprietary DRM. I thought they just used Adobe and automated the process (on the device) for their own market (like Sony used to do and B&N still does). Sorry. Doesn't change my point however. Kobos and Kindles both are tied to proprietary DRM schemes. Without access to Adobe ADE a Kobo (in my hands) would be limited to the Kobo market for DRM books, as the Kindle is limited to Amazon's market for DRM books.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Sounds like you had a defective Glo. I've read of problems with just about every brand/model Reader.

The issues I had were commonly reported, especially the "double tap" issue. I was advised to use the swipe motion instead. This was a known issue with touch screen Kobos (for all I know, it still is).

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You choose to use Linux which is not nearly as good with eBooks as Windows. Windows is just easier to use. It's not Adobe's fault you use Linux. It's your fault. It's not Adobe's fault that Wine is a pain to get ADE 2.0.1 working. It's your fault because you chose Linux. Nobody forced you to use Linux. So don't complain about ADE just because you chose Linux.

So, it's "my fault" I don't use the proprietary Windows and instead use the free Linux? (Oh, the irony.) But it really doesn't matter who's "fault" it is (personally I think Adobe could easily make a Linux version of ADE if they were so inclined), the fact remains that -- since DRM ePub is (for the most part) tied to Adobe, this means DRM ePubs are just as proprietary as the Amazon AZW3 format.

I can use a Kindle, without issue in Linux, so long as I buy my DRM books from Amazon. I can use a Kobo (without issue in Linux) so long as I buy my books from Kobo. Amazon has more choices -- also, in my opinion, more reliable devices (and certainly cheaper ones). If I want to borrow an ePub book from Overdrive? No issues with the Kindles. No dice with a Kobo. My Sony T2 still allows ePub downloads via its browser because it (the device itself) still has the proprietary Adobe ADE built in.

I should add ... I don't consider the lack of ADE for Linux a problem since I don't have a need for it. I think I can still buy books for my Sony via Kobo and I know I can still buy books for my Nooks via B&N. But mostly I buy books from Amazon. Non-problem solved.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by llcj

Yes, in the U.S. Amazon.ca does not sell refurbished Voyages. Amazon.com will not ship refurbished Voyages to Canada. I could probably check eBay, but for something like this I would rather get it from Amazon.

I understand. I feel sorry for folks outside of the U.S. in this regard sometimes. Americans seem to get all the breaks on computers and device prices. Is there anyone in the U.S. who could buy it and ship it to you?

[llcj]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

The Kobo Glo HD in particular was made of a weaker plastic than a kindle, or any of my other Kobo's. I like to swap cases a fair bit and in both my Glo HDs I ended up with hairline fractures in the screen running from the top down the screen, on the left hand size. The first one after a week, the second an identical break 11 months after I got it. I was lucky Argos gave me a replacement the first time and a refund the second as it was under a year. Imo the fractures were caused by the flexing of the screen taking the device in and out of a case.

That's unfortunate. I understand your opinion now. I'd be quite unhappy if that happened to my Glo HD.

[latepaul]

Always find it amusing that the most vocal anti-Linux poster on these boards uses an avatar based on Tux.

Anyay FWIW instructions on installing ADE 2.0.1 on Linux using Wine (credit to Darryl).

[llcj]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I understand. I feel sorry for folks outside of the U.S. in this regard sometimes. Americans seem to get all the breaks on computers and device prices. Is there anyone in the U.S. who could buy it and ship it to you?

Thanks for the advice.

The thing is, I really do prefer Kobo for the reasons that most people state, however, the Voyage and Oasis lines being made of higher end materials make them very attractive. If the price is right and the device is easily had, if it feels great in the hand, and if the screen is lovely I would probably bite. At this point, for me, it's not worth the bother.

While I haven't traveled to the States in a long time, the next time I do go, I will definitely be looking at these devices.