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Old 11-18-2018, 09:17 AM   #16
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Last edited by Pizza_Cant_Read; 11-18-2018 at 09:22 AM. Reason: hit edit because I forgot the quote, then after hitting quote it created a new post. Deleting this for redundancy.
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
Most authors I've run into despise grammar checkers.
There's a reason the term "grammar nazis" exist; people want to express their ideas in their own voice, with their own cadences, constructions, and expressions, regardless of what the rules may demand.

"Rules are meant for breaking" is the mantra of most good writers. The trick is knowing when and how. A "writing assistant AI" would go insane trying to reconcile the various styles of different writers, to say nothing of the speech patterns of characters.

Grammar checkers are useful for business or technical writing, where precision and clarity are paramount but for fiction, where mood, tone, and metaphor matter, they are counter-indicated. The more the software tries to do, the less useful it becomes.
At least they are consistent and preaching well defined rules. Language today seems to be changing more rapidly according to cultural norms rather than a defined rule set which has traditionally empowered grammar nazis.

I am a pretty liberal guy. I always questioned why we use 'his' and 'men' as generic terms for people, but I accepted it because that is what my English teachers taught. I sometimes go back to that out of habit and people aren't shy to point out that I should use "they" and "them" even in a singular way. Spend a few years without keeping up with culture (outside the US, living in China for example) and you can accidentally step on toes. I know I should adapt and I try but it is hard when I was indoctrinated in different times (only the 90s and early aughts haha). Another example is 'gypsy'. I know it isn't great to use and I understand why. But I have always loved fantasy and gypsies frequently make appearances in my novels.

Anyway it looks like I may get my wish for localized 'AI' rather than something cloud based: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18...-on-an-iphone/.

I hope this trends. More to empower individuals and less food for mega-corporations controlling all the resources...

-PB

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Old 11-18-2018, 09:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
Most authors I've run into despise grammar checkers.
There's a reason the term "grammar nazis" exist; people want to express their ideas in their own voice, with their own cadences, constructions, and expressions, regardless of what the rules may demand.

"Rules are meant for breaking" is the mantra of most good writers. The trick is knowing when and how. A "writing assistant AI" would go insane trying to reconcile the various styles of different writers, to say nothing of the speech patterns of characters.
Unfortunately many people simply don't know how to write correct English. Look at MR: we are supposedly a literate community, and yet consider how many people here don't know how to use the possessive pronoun "its" correctly. It's fine to break the rules, but a prerequisite for doing so is having a good understanding of those rules.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
Grammar checkers are useful for business or technical writing, where precision and clarity are paramount but for fiction, where mood, tone, and metaphor matter, they are counter-indicated. The more the software tries to do, the less useful it becomes.
Absolutely agree (even with the part of the post that was snipped). I've seen critiquers (is that a word?) trying to apply rules of grammar to dialogue.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:57 AM   #20
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Indeed.
Microsoft and a hundred startups have the exact same "capabilities" and the exact same inclination as Amazon. Which is to say zero interest in publishing.

...

Some of the pattern recognition functions *could* be used to assemble narratives from boilerplate but there is little money in that area. Those with the capabilities have better (more profitable) uses for the resources and those with the interest have neither the capabilities nor the resources.
That is an even better point - there's more money to be made using the AI for other purposes than to write books.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:16 AM   #21
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Self-driving cars seems to be where people are predicting the real money lies. I saw a BBC News report recently about a company in Nigeria which is employing literally thousands of people to "tag" street scenes ("this is a car", "this is a building", "this is a cyclist", etc) for a major Silicon Valley corporation to improve scene recognition for car AI systems.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:55 AM   #22
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Self-driving cars seems to be where people are predicting the real money lies. I saw a BBC News report recently about a company in Nigeria which is employing literally thousands of people to "tag" street scenes ("this is a car", "this is a building", "this is a cyclist", etc) for a major Silicon Valley corporation to improve scene recognition for car AI systems.
Long distance trucking is a very large expense for hordes of companies and it is a relatively high-paying job where automation can both improve operations over humans and simultaneously reduce costs. Which makes the capital expense easily justifiable. Especially since there is a shortage of qualified operators so the phase-in will not be costing jobs as alarmists fear.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/1...merica-384230/

And because (at least in the US) the interstates are limited access roads with zero pedestrian traffic, the problem is simpler for the software; less human judgment required. This should be even better for overnight cargo movement since there will be no danger of highway hypnosis lulling tired drivers to sleep. Plus convoy-ing the trucks will be easier at night.

The combination of electric trucks and automated guidance is a natural. And, yes, lots of companies are working the details, not just in silivalley. Test runs have been ongoing for a while. As soon as Tesla, Otto, and the other electric truck companies get product on the street we should see the first pilot projects in the wild.

That said, there is a third enabling technology that doesn't get as much notice in this area and that is 5G wireless. The trucks won't be fully autonomous but rather remotely managed, like drones. The onboard logic will do the mile by mile driving but routing and system monitoring will be remotely overseen by humans. That requires very low latency connectivity which is one of the operational modes of 5G.

It's a big capital expense that only the biggest companies can afford but it is a technology that is coming and coming fast. UPS, FEDEX, AMAZON, and Walmart look to be the first adopters.

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Old 11-19-2018, 10:09 AM   #23
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I don't think "paint-by-number" writing is ever going to work. They've been trying this with "fill-in-the-blanks" writing software for years now. The problem is that writing is not a mechanical process. There's more involved then producing something that "looks" like a... screenplay.
There are quite a few screenplays that may as well be AI generated "paint-by-number" scripts

Look at most any Jerry Bruckheimer product or most any other mainstream action movie starring The Rock.

Animated movies too. how many of them are about a character who has characteristics that make her an outsider, then it turns of those differences are what makes her special/helps her save the day? A bot could likely churn out several of those.
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Old 11-19-2018, 11:23 AM   #24
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This sounds like a stupid idea...lol
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Old 11-19-2018, 11:25 AM   #25
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This sounds like a stupid idea...lol
Who cares if it is stupid? The question is if we can make money from it and have no pesky authors to deal with.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:20 PM   #26
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There are quite a few screenplays that may as well be AI generated "paint-by-number" scripts
One of the big directors (not sure which one, Ridley Scott?) wants the the writers to completely leave the action sequences to him. Supposedly he once said, "Just write, 'things blow up'" and that was all for the 20 minute action sequence. But a movie, unlike a book, can hide its lack of plot and character development with CGI. Hard to do that with a book.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:29 PM   #27
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One of the big directors (not sure which one, Ridley Scott?) wants the the writers to completely leave the action sequences to him. Supposedly he once said, "Just write, 'things blow up'" and that was all for the 20 minute action sequence.
Since I respect Ridley Scott and his movies don't typically have things just blowing up, hopefully it wasn't him. Maybe his brother Tony or Michael Bay.

Quote:
But a movie, unlike a book, can hide its lack of plot and character development with CGI. Hard to do that with a book.
CGI only carries a movie so far. I have been over empty blockbuster spectacle for a while (since before it was all CG) and others are coming around.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:01 PM   #28
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What constitutes AI is complex. Yes, the vast majority of what we hear about now is just bigger, better, faster version of what was previously described as automation. But at some point a change in quantity may become a change in quality ... or not. I'm inclined to think that physics might stand in the way of singularity, at least.

But most of that is a straw-man argument anyway. Sure, the big companies will be chasing AI/automation for its money-making possibilities, but on the way there they will likely sponsor many diverse and interesting side-line investigations, because this sort of thing can produce unexpected benefits, and because the PR value is good for business. So I would not be at all surprised to see projects arise that deliberately try to generate an artwork of some sort that will gain popular appeal/acceptance as an artwork - long, long before AI/automation could be expected to do this on any commercially useful level.

Which brings us back to the OP's original questions:
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[...] What do writers here think about AI generated books? Assuming Google and major publishers move in this direction, what do writers think about machines "taking away jobs" and if such software is ever released under an open source license would you consider using it to prototype your own stories and to otherwise accelerate your own release cycle? [...]
It seems to me that the two questions here assume different things. "Taking away jobs" assumes an AI solution that can wonder off on into VR somewhere and come back to you with a new story. This is quite different to software that might be used by creative individuals to help in the creation of new work - as suggested by the second question.

Automation could conceivably produce the second. If it does, I imagine it might be something to the effect of a mellotron but for writing. (I'm making this up as I go along, don't take me too literally.) If so, the true creativity would lie with the expert that can use such a tool effectively, as Mike Pinder managed with the mellotron for The Moody Blues. I have trouble envisaging how such a thing might work in practice, but assuming it came into existence my guess would be that many existing writers would continue as they were, and only some would adopt the new tool, and perhaps only for some work.

If a truly creative AI could be sent away to think up a brand new novel then there is no point asking whether writers would use such software, because it wouldn't take a writer to use it. The impact of such an AI on the world would depend on many factors. If the sophistication required meant that only a very limited number could be run on very specialised hardware, then it would be just as if a few new writers came on the market, and the "taking away jobs" would be effectively irrelevant. Or maybe we will get KoboVac and KindleVac running quantum processors, and these new e-readers of the future won't carry any books at all*, instead the owner will say "I'd like a new cosy murder mystery in the style of Agatha Christie" and the software would start to tell you the story, perhaps making it up as it went along. Around then writers would have to worry about losing their jobs ... but I'm not panicking yet.

* I oversimplified for the sake of effect. Humans are social creatures, we want to share and talk about our experiences - which is why we're all here, yes? So in fact these e-readers of the future will need to be able to save and share books their owners particularly enjoyed. And this distinction make it seem likely that writers will still have jobs. Yes they will face competition, and it's possible to conceive human tastes in stories will evolve to prefer AI (or to abhor it, anyone's guess), just as our tastes have evolved in recent decades to want action from the first page.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:16 PM   #29
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Since I respect Ridley Scott and his movies don't typically have things just blowing up, hopefully it wasn't him. Maybe his brother Tony or Michael Bay.
It WAS Michael Bay. Sorry for mixing it up.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:48 PM   #30
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Self driving trucks. What could possibly go wrong?

"A truck, navigating rush hour traffic in Boston, crashed into 48 cars and took out the supports of a bridge when the Windows 10 OS decided to do an update and shut down the onboard computer ... News at 11."

And when all these "relatively high paying jobs" are replaced by robots, whose going to be able to buy the products the self-driving trucks deliver?
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