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Old 08-16-2018, 03:01 AM   #1
rcentros
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Amazon Seller protection and deception?

At the beginning of July I ordered a case for my Tolino Page from an Amazon seller who had good ratings. I didn't pay the extra for expedited shipping (I think it was over $30 to do that for a $7.50 case) and knew the case was coming from China -- so expected a long wait. The case shipped on July 6th (without tracking) and was due by July 25 to August 15th (yesterday). It hasn't arrived but it's not far out of the range yet.

However ... getting a little antsy and checking the seller's ratings yesterday, I was a bit disturbed to see that the 30 day rating had dropped to 71% positive and 27% negative, with 2% neutral. The 90 day rating was a bit better, but the negative ratings were still around 20%. Several reviewers reported never receiving their order, some reported extremely slow shipping, or product damaged or not as advertised. "Well, crud," I thought, "I've been waiting a month and a half for something that may not show up."

So tonight I look at my order and Amazon "helpfully" tells me that "Your package was probably delivered, as we expected it to arrive by now." Well, they have no way of knowing that it hasn't arrived ... no big deal, but let me take a look at that seller's ratings again (I was worried that the bottom had fallen out and they had just quit shipping orders and wanted to see if more negative reviews had been posted).

Imagine my surprise when, clicking on the seller's profile, I find this seller now has a 100% positive rating, both for 30 days and 90 days out. All the negative reviews are "magically" gone. In other's words, the seller's profile is a complete fabrication. If this isn't fraud, it sure as hell borders on it. I've come to depend on seller's ratings on eBay to gauge the honesty of the sellers -- with Amazon, apparently, the seller profile is a useless waste of time. How does Amazon get away with this? Even if they refund my payment (should the case not appear), I still don't want to waste my time with a seller who may -- or may not -- get the right product shipped to me in a timely manner.

Amazon is dripping sleaze here. If it's not fraud it's definitely a form of deception.

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Old 08-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #2
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What's the seller's name rcentros? Better to not fall in the pit than to have to climb out of it later.
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:17 PM   #3
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Did you contact customer service? They need to know the seller hasn't delivered. You can also question the seller's rating.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:13 PM   #4
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What's the seller's name rcentros? Better to not fall in the pit than to have to climb out of it later.
At this point, it's not the seller who is the problem. Mail service in my area is notoriously unpredictable. What irritates me is the manipulation of the seller profile by Amazon. I'm reluctant to buy products from overseas, so always look closely at the seller profile before committing to a purchase — even a small purchase like this one. Had I seen some of the comments that I saw a couple days ago when I purchased this case, I wouldn't have bought it. I would have probably gone with one of the German sellers instead — Tolino Page cases are not easy to find in the U.S.

The point is, after seeing this seller's rating "whitewashed" like this, I've got serious doubts about any of Amazon's sellers. It's not fair to the customer but it's also not fair to the majority of its sellers — as this practice undermines my faith in all of them.

If you still want to know the name of the seller, just do a search for Tolino Page. The second search item is for a blue case that fits the Tolino Page ($4.99 + $2.99 shipping). Mine was black, but the listing was identical (except for "Black" in the parentheses at the end of the description line of instead of "Blue") and now (as of today) the black one no longer shows up.

But, again, I'm not angry at the seller — not yet anyhow. I knew I was in for a long wait when I ordered the case.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:55 PM   #5
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Did you contact customer service? They need to know the seller hasn't delivered. You can also question the seller's rating.
Not yet. Not sure if I want to question Amazon's seller profile "whitewashing" as I'm afraid that might ultimately lead to a suspension of my account. Probably not, probably just some legalese explanation about how this is "okay." At any rate, no personal harm done at this point. I guess I probably should get hold of the seller though and put it on "record" that I haven't as yet received the case.

EDIT: I've let the seller know the case hasn't arrived (so it's on record). At this point I'm willing to wait a couple more weeks. Still not happy with Amazon, but I'll get over it. (Will probably just go to eBay first from now on.)

Meanwhile, the Kobo Mini case I ordered from England (even though the company advertised itself as North Laine Accessories US – Navitech) arrived today. I have no idea how they could sell a "leather-like" sleep case for 99¢ plus $2.49 shipping. Very happy with it. (the price has gone up to $2.99 – but still I can't send a package across the street for less than $3.00)

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Old 08-16-2018, 05:23 PM   #6
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Delivery time for cheap shipping from China can vary widely. The shipper waits until a container is full before sending it to America, where it gets handed over to the post office. So, your waiting time depends on how long it takes to fill up the rest of the container. If you're lucky, your item was one of the last to go in, and gets shipped quickly. If you're unlucky, it takes a long time to fill the rest of the container. I ended up waiting about three months for a cheap USB adapter to be delivered to me, but it made it eventually. So, I wouldn't panic if it takes a long time, because it doesn't mean that something bad has happened.
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:46 PM   #7
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Delivery time for cheap shipping from China can vary widely. The shipper waits until a container is full before sending it to America, where it gets handed over to the post office. So, your waiting time depends on how long it takes to fill up the rest of the container. If you're lucky, your item was one of the last to go in, and gets shipped quickly. If you're unlucky, it takes a long time to fill the rest of the container. I ended up waiting about three months for a cheap USB adapter to be delivered to me, but it made it eventually. So, I wouldn't panic if it takes a long time, because it doesn't mean that something bad has happened.
Okay. You're right. I don't order a lot from China but the very worst scenario is I'm out $8. I'm guessing that was probably the reason for a lot of the complaints (that have now been deleted). I also realize that "expected" delivery time is not the same as "guaranteed" delivery time.

It's not the seller who irritates me here. It's the way the seller profile feedback was "whitewashed." I can see some sour grape complaints being deleted as unfair, but all complaints suddenly disappearing? That just doesn't pass the smell test.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:02 PM   #8
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It's not the seller who irritates me here. It's the way the seller profile feedback was "whitewashed." I can see some sour grape complaints being deleted as unfair, but all complaints suddenly disappearing? That just doesn't pass the smell test.
Why are you giving the seller a free pass on the whitewashing? Surely you don't think Amazon goes around randomly improving sellers' ratings? Could the deceit/fraud not have been instigated entirely by the seller?

I admit I don't know the ins and outs of the arrangements between Amazon and third-party sellers (and I'm not suggesting that Amazon is completely innocent), but I imagine some of the seedier sellers have found ways to game the ratings system.

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Old 08-16-2018, 08:03 PM   #9
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Okay. You're right. I don't order a lot from China but the very worst scenario is I'm out $8.
That's the thing, you probably don't know that it's being delivered to you directly from China when you put in the order to the North American seller. They pass on the order to the Chinese company, that then ships it directly to you rather than the seller. The seller never touches the item. Anyway, if the shipping is super cheap (as in free) on inexpensive items, I now assume that it will be delivered in this way, and is likely to take a long time.

I know that you're not really complaining about the long delivery time, but I thought I'd throw this out there in case some are unaware of this new arrangement (rather than the old one of the seller stocking items locally and shipping them to the customer).
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:26 PM   #10
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And I'm not trying to exonerate Amazon of any wrong doing. I'm just questioning the distribution of the "sleazy" label. In my mind, asking someone to do something sleazy for you is, in and of itself, sleazy. The seller had to request that all the negative reviews be removed. So they're at least equally complicit in the deception/fraud, no? But yet the seller has not irritated you (@rentros) at all?
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:31 PM   #11
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This one? I ordered June 8, delivered June 30, just fyi.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:29 PM   #12
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This one? I ordered June 8, delivered June 30, just fyi.
S
No, I believe this one, except in black:


https://smile.amazon.com/Tolino-Erea.../dp/B079M5K3W9
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:43 AM   #13
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Why are you giving the seller a free pass on the whitewashing? Surely you don't think Amazon goes around randomly improving sellers' ratings? Could the deceit/fraud not have been instigated entirely by the seller?
I assume Amazon controls the store front and seller profile ratings. If not (if the seller is allowed to revise their own ratings), then the seller profile ratings really are absolutely useless. In this case over 25% of the comments (the negative ones) disappeared over night. I don't see how that could happen without Amazon's intervention. And it's definitely in Amazon's interest to clean up a seller's profile.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:46 AM   #14
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That's the thing, you probably don't know that it's being delivered to you directly from China when you put in the order to the North American seller. ...
When the expected delivery date is three to six weeks out, I just assume it's probably Asia. But I do wish that Amazon would specifically state that this is being shipped from China (or whatever country it's coming from) like eBay does.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:48 AM   #15
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This one? I ordered June 8, delivered June 30, just fyi.
S
I like that one -- though I also like the Kobo Mini cover I got from England. Funny I didn't find this one when I was searching for Mini cover.
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