A writer with an artwork question

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I
Like the Slite, the real purpose of the cover is to make it stand out on the shelf, to get the shopper to pick it up - same is true if browsing on-line. There are a number of ways to do this graphically and all ways don't work for all people.

Exactly. And covers also signal what kind of book it is. And the photographic covers above succeed in both ways.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Interesting stuff here. I don't think there's any harm (certainly not a cardinal sin) of showing the characters on the cover, provided they match the descriptions.

Like the Slite, the real purpose of the cover is to make it stand out on the shelf, to get the shopper to pick it up - same is true if browsing on-line. There are a number of ways to do this graphically and all ways don't work for all people.

That's a marketers perspective, not that of anybody who actually cares about design. And if it were true, then why are so many book covers alike? why are so many covers bland? Even if what you said were true (which it is not and hasn't been for a long time) the internet is not a bookstore, we're playing by different rules now. Some of those rules we're making up as we go along, which is all the more exciting.

If the object is to just produce some generic crap, then I don't want part of it. There's tons of places on the web where a cover designer can slap you a font on top of some stock art and charge you $100 for the privilege. Screw it, why not just put some fonts on top of a starfield like every other bloody sci-fi book that's ever been published.

The cardinal sin is one of second-guessing the imagination of the reader. Pre-loading an expectation of the characters within the text (always a wrong thing to do). If you want a comic book, then buy a comic book. That's full of pretty pictures to look at and you don't have to stretch your imagination any to imagine what they look like.



Hopefully this is not the place for that kind of thing.

[Moejoe]

You know what, LordRaiden, stick with what you have. It's obvious this thread is just going to turn into a flame war with the champions of the bland and the inoffensive coming in to push their noses into the process. And I just don't have time to design and defend my design decisions at the same time from an onslaught of those kind of people.

[Moejoe]

Here's a nice generic cover so your readers never have to think about what they're reading. Never have to have an imagination (add an explosion or two and you're set for life). Now all any sci-fi writer needs ever do is change the title and the author name.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

You know what, LordRaiden, stick with what you have. It's obvious this thread is just going to turn into a flame war with the champions of the bland and the inoffensive coming in to push their noses into the process. And I just don't have time to design and defend my design decisions at the same time from an onslaught of those kind of people.

Jeeze man, calm down.

I don't think anyone every said there was anything wrong with what you proposed, certainly I don't think so. I expressed my opinion on book covers and at least one purpose of those covers.

And why is it a "sin" if the photo/artwork matches the description?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

.... Even if what you said were true (which it is not and hasn't been for a long time) the internet is not a bookstore......

.......

The cardinal sin is one of second-guessing the imagination of the reader. Pre-loading an expectation of the characters within the text (always a wrong thing to do). ...

You can choose to have the OPINION that what I said is not true, but clearly marketing studies have shown that it is. And no the INTERNET is not a bookstore, duh!, but it is a place where authors can hope to raise interest and potentially SELL there books -- that clearly is the intent of the OP from what I gather. The cover, the image is often the first thing a browser and potential buyer sees. It's what gets them in the door. Just like everything else if life.

as far as the SIN -- if the image matches the description of the author, then there is no guessing involved.

[Slite]

MoeJoe, in no way did I try to belittle your efforts or your design ideas, which I think is quite marvelous in fact.

I just stated the fast that sometime what you call a "shake'n'bake" cover (And I agree that that is what it is) can make someone who doesn't know exactly what they are looking for makes them pick out a book by the cover.

I like plain covers, I said that, and also that when it comes to the old skool dead tree variety of books, I like them to have nice spines that look good in the bookshelf.

If you feel offended by that, I am again sorry, it was not my intention at all

[Steven Lake]

I like my covers to relay an "idea", not a whole story. So my tastes tend to be somewhat in the middle. Moejoe does great work, and as for his suggestion for the logo for Earthfleet, I love it. His suggestion of consistency also works (ie, I'm sticking with simplified space scenes that relay a key idea from the book) and I've been trying to follow it, albeit loosely.

And you know what? I think moejoe just sparked an idea in my head for the cover of book 5! His Earthfleet logo he posted, on an all black background (or maybe a field of stars) would make the perfect cover. Now I just need him to help me put some spit and polish on the other two covers.

[Kevin Gerard]

I go to the graduations and hire students from the Art Insitute of San Diego. They are excellent artists, they get a job right out of school, and they're inexpensive because they want to build their portfolios.

They have Art Institutes everywhere so check it out. If you can't find anyone let me know and I'll give you a couple of e-mail addresses.

FaTaLiTy!!!!!!!!!

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

It's obvious this thread is just going to turn into a flame war with the champions of the bland and the inoffensive coming in to push their noses into the process. And I just don't have time to design and defend my design decisions at the same time from an onslaught of those kind of people.

Given that you practically don't give a damn about typography... your oversensitivity about cover design is very curious.

Though, admittedly, in this particular instance you happen to be right.

- Ahi

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

As someone who uses both character and abstract covers pretty much interchangeably, I'd say that it depends on a lot of factors. The intent of a cover is simply to catch your eye, nothing more... but if you're going to do a cover, it should be at least strongly related to the subject.

It's important to note that not every story idea translates well into abstract representation. Abstracts can be "pretty pictures" in themselves, but if they give no hint to the story itself, I'd say they aren't doing the job they should be doing. They might as well be swimsuit models, then, depicted just to drag the fanboys in, regardless of the contents.

I also don't have a problem using characters (or other story-related elements) for a cover, as long as they are intended to resemble the characters/elements depicted. As I go to a lot of trouble selecting character graphics based on the characters they represent, I'd say this method can be very effective.

Most importantly, I think it's wrong to be too concerned about the book cover as art. The literature is the art here... the cover is merely a packaging designed to encourage more people to check out the art. If the cover succeeds in that task, it's done its job.

[Steven Lake]

On a side note to the question of consistency in covers across all the books, I've started finding ways in which to do that already, as I did a bit of tinkering on book 3's cover again, and came up with this:



which in turn plays off the cover of book 2. Sure, it doesn't stick with book 1's design, but that was more a "pull it out of your **** at the last moment" concept, since I really had no idea what to do for the first cover. I may eventually though go back and correct that. ^_^

[Abecedary]

I don't see anything crediting NASA for the use of the Blue Marble.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Abecedary

I don't see anything crediting NASA for the use of the Blue Marble.

Isn't it in the public domain by virtue of coming from NASA?

And anyways... why is the planet turned the wrong way? Europe is supposed to be on the front.

- Ahi

[Abecedary]

Originally Posted by ahi

Isn't it in the public domain by virtue of coming from NASA?

And anyways... why is the planet turned the wrong way? Europe is supposed to be on the front.

- Ahi

I believe it is PD and not copyrighted, but they do require attribution.

As for the "front", the original Blue Marble mostly showed Asia, Africa, and the Arabian Peninsula. Newer versions are composites, and the "front" varies depending on which one you use. The shot on Lord Raiden's cover is the 2001 composite found at the bottom of the wiki page.