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Old 11-11-2016, 12:22 PM   #31
JSWolf
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Originally Posted by Strether View Post
No it's not. And unlike you, I own both readers and have some basis for making a comparison.

Jim
One major issue with the Oasis is the battery. The battery will be in need of replacing in 1/2 the time of the Voyage. The battery case is another issue because it forces you to use that case instead of one of your own choosing.
The design is yet another issue as (IMHO) I feel the design of the Oasis is poor. The design of the Voyage is good.

Oh and one other issue is the price. The Oasis is over priced for what it is and what it does.

If I was choosing between the two, I would go for the Voyage.
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Old 11-11-2016, 12:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
One major issue with the Oasis is the battery. The battery will be in need of replacing in 1/2 the time of the Voyage. The battery case is another issue because it forces you to use that case instead of one of your own choosing.
The design is yet another issue as (IMHO) I feel the design of the Oasis is poor. The design of the Voyage is good.

Oh and one other issue is the price. The Oasis is over priced for what it is and what it does.

If I was choosing between the two, I would go for the Voyage.
That all sounds like trumped up reasoning to me. You don't know that the battery will need replacing in half the time, and since you've never read extensively with the Oasis, you've no basis for saying the design is poor, and the Oasis isn't overpriced for those of us who enjoy using it.

And I look forward to the day when I see you've bought any Kindle.

Jim

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Old 11-11-2016, 01:55 PM   #33
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The Oasis internal battery is 1/6th the size of the Voyage battery. I think I remember that correctly although it's been a while. A lithium polymer battery is typically good for 500 to 1,000 full charges. Devices with similar power draw will wear out a small battery by using up it's charges more quickly than devices with large batteries.

From that it's a safe bet that the overall lifetime of the Oasis will be about 1/6 that of the Voyage. The fact that the Oasis has a cover that contains a charger isn't part of this calculation. From what I've read it's probably not that difficult to replace the Oasis battery so it might not be quite as bad as it seems.

I've pointed this out to a number of people who were considering buying an Oasis and most bought it anyway. Those who explained said they just don't care. They want that form factor, regardless. I agree that that's perfectly reasonable although it's not the choice I've made.

I haven't seen an Oasis. I've just read reviews and seen video reviews and I'm pretty sure I'd like it. But I'd worry about the battery and that's why I don't have one.

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Old 11-11-2016, 05:34 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by barryem View Post
The Oasis internal battery is 1/6th the size of the Voyage battery. I think I remember that correctly although it's been a while. A lithium polymer battery is typically good for 500 to 1,000 full charges. Devices with similar power draw will wear out a small battery by using up it's charges more quickly than devices with large batteries.

From that it's a safe bet that the overall lifetime of the Oasis will be about 1/6 that of the Voyage. The fact that the Oasis has a cover that contains a charger isn't part of this calculation. From what I've read it's probably not that difficult to replace the Oasis battery so it might not be quite as bad as it seems.
It's a safe bet that you're wrong, simply because the three-year extended warranty includes a free battery replacement, just as the Voyage's does: if they had to pay out on that a lot, they'd lose money. The Voyage battery definitely does not last eighteen years!

In practice, the Oasis's normal use pattern involves a lot of very shallow discharges of the case battery. I think I've gone below 40% only three or four times, and most of the time it's around 60--70% when it gets chucked back in the cover for another top-up. Li-ion batteries last a *lot* more charging cycles if the cycles are shallow. Really a lot more. High thousands to tens of thousands. "Effective infinity", in practice, because some other component will fail first...
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:25 PM   #35
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Sigh, the battery talk again.

I received my Oasis on May 1st. In the six months I have had it I have used it extensively. I have seen zero change in battery life. None. I know this very well as I put in my calendar when I charge my devices. Don't ask.

So it lasts me exactly the same. So I can extrapolate from that and know there will be no issue. At least not in any reasonable time. I still have my K1 from 2008, I still have my K3 from 2010, I have a basic, PW, some tablets. And a Voyage. Not one of the devices has a dead battery. The K3 still holds the same battery as it did years ago. I don't use it much anymore, but I know when I charge it and where the battery is at that time.

Back to the actual question, what was it again. I own both Oasis and Voyage. They are both very nice devices. Which one will be a better fit is a personal thing. For me the Oasis is much better than the Voyage as its more ergonomic. So I can read easier. It also has real buttons, again, I can read easier. I can't hold and change pages with one hand on the Voyage. If those are not issues that you think you will have concerns about, Voyage is great. Oasis is great. For me the extra price was worth it to get the Oasis. I use my Voyage still, either when I charge the Oasis, or if I left it downstairs and I am too lazy to go get it. Hence why I always have charged kindles around the house.
The basic with buttons is also a fine device for me. When I am reading on the balcony, its great. Real buttons. But of course they took that away from the line up also. So only device with buttons now is Oasis. And with faux buttons its the Voyage. Both have flat fronts, Voyage has the auto light, if that is something one wants. I couldn't get it to work anymore for me for some reason, after having used it for months.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:03 AM   #36
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I own both the Voyage and Oasis and use them both extensively, I read non-fiction on the Voyage and fiction on the Oasis. I like them both, but if I could have only one it would be the Voyage. I appreciate the lightness of the Oasis but I also now read my Voyage with no cover but with a skin, and it feels light smooth and comfortable to hold. And I still like the adaptive light and page press buttons, and I think the contrast is slightly better.

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Old 11-12-2016, 04:53 AM   #37
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It's a safe bet that you're wrong, simply because the three-year extended warranty includes a free battery replacement, just as the Voyage's does: if they had to pay out on that a lot, they'd lose money. The Voyage battery definitely does not last eighteen years!

In practice, the Oasis's normal use pattern involves a lot of very shallow discharges of the case battery. I think I've gone below 40% only three or four times, and most of the time it's around 60--70% when it gets chucked back in the cover for another top-up. Li-ion batteries last a *lot* more charging cycles if the cycles are shallow. Really a lot more. High thousands to tens of thousands. "Effective infinity", in practice, because some other component will fail first...
Lithium battery lifetime has two factors:

1. The number of charge cycles, as above.
2. A absolute lifespan somewhere around 5 years which is independent of the number of charge cycles. The clock starts ticking when the battery is first charged, and can't be stopped.

The second of these factors, not the first, is what will eventually kill the battery of any reader.
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:35 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
One major issue with the Oasis is the battery. The battery will be in need of replacing in 1/2 the time of the Voyage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryem View Post
The Oasis internal battery is 1/6th the size of the Voyage battery. I think I remember that correctly although it's been a while. A lithium polymer battery is typically good for 500 to 1,000 full charges. Devices with similar power draw will wear out a small battery by using up it's charges more quickly than devices with large batteries.

From that it's a safe bet that the overall lifetime of the Oasis will be about 1/6 that of the Voyage.
These unfounded claims have been raised and rebutted many times already.

As others have pointed out, there are several other factors which influence LiIon battery lifetime, particularly the depth of the charge cycle. It's entirely reasonable to suppose that typical Oasis usage patterns will involve shallower discharge cycles and hence a longer lifetime.

JSWolf in particular - you've made this claim many times on this forum, and each time the flaws in your reasoning are pointed out to you. You never address those flaws, but instead just wait a while and make the same flawed claims again. What are you trying to achieve?
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:39 AM   #39
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Lithium battery lifetime has two factors:

1. The number of charge cycles, as above.
2. A absolute lifespan somewhere around 5 years which is independent of the number of charge cycles. The clock starts ticking when the battery is first charged, and can't be stopped.

The second of these factors, not the first, is what will eventually kill the battery of any reader.
I agree with your conclusion that your factor (2) will be the dominant one, but the technical pedant in me feels the need to point out that there are several other factors affecting LiIon battery lifetime, not just the two you point out.

As you say, though - it doesn't really matter. I can't envisage charge-cycle-related battery lifetime issues actually causing a noticeable problem in real life.
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:50 AM   #40
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I agree with your conclusion that your factor (2) will be the dominant one, but the technical pedant in me feels the need to point out that there are several other factors affecting LiIon battery lifetime, not just the two you point out.

As you say, though - it doesn't really matter. I can't envisage charge-cycle-related battery lifetime issues actually causing a noticeable problem in real life.
Indeed - I was simplifying the situation, but the important point (which I think we agree on) is that the number of charge cycles is extremely unlikely to be an issue with any eInk device.
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:53 AM   #41
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Indeed - I was simplifying the situation, but the important point (which I think we agree on) is that the number of charge cycles is extremely unlikely to be an issue with any eInk device.
Absolutely - we're in complete agreement.

(And I fully understand you were just simplifying - as I say, it was just my internal technical pedant leaking out a bit.)
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:27 PM   #42
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I think some people are overlooking the design philosophies here regarding the Oasis.

Amazon did exactly what they wanted regarding the design factors involved. Sure, the battery is smaller and charges from the case. That's the whole idea. Granted, some may not like that idea, but that's the design Amazon chose.

The question is this (as I see it): "Why did Amazon choose to design their new reader in this fashion?"

Let me try to answer that with these points:

1) Even with the case on, the overall design is lighter and thinner than the previous models, which gives the reader a different footprint for holding and for storing it in various places.

2) The reader becomes extremely light when the case is removed and makes for a comfortable fit in one's hands.

3) Due to point #1 [above] the reader is easily snapped off from the cover, which adds an even greater degree of comfort to the 'handling factor' when reading. When finished reading, the reader simply snaps onto [latches onto] the cover.

4) There is (for me) a certain elegance to the design that I find highly desirable when just sitting around reading.

------------
I realize that all these points can be refuted, if one desires to do so. Keep in mind, however, that the reasons listed above are the reasons why I enjoy reading on the Oasis - especially when lying in bed on my back.

For me, the smaller battery is a non-issue. I've never run into any problems whatsoever with it running out of juice when reading. Whenever I take the Oasis with me, the cover is part of the package and that goes with me, as well. Trying to imagine the Oasis running out of a charge is, for me, a laughable non-issee. BUT, if it ever happened, I would simply snap it onto the case.

Also, keep in mind that I own a Voyage. To me, it's not better or worse than an Oasis. It's a different kind of reader for different circumstances. The design philosophy is different. I imagine it therefore has a different kind of use.

Regarding the managing of content, I keep only Literature and literary works on the Voyage; whereas, for the Oasis I keep genre fiction on it, such as Horror and Mystery, for example.

When I go out of the house and take one of the readers with me, then it depends upon what mood I'm in for reading.

Remember, your uses may vary. Perhaps for someone here (even with the cover on), the Oasis may be too small, especially for someone with large hands. Or even for someone who is a bit uncoordinated (not that there's anything wrong with being uncoordinated).

Or perhaps you don't care for buttons? Then stay away from the Oasis! Perhaps you don't like the haptic guides on the Voyage! Then stay away from the Voyage. Again, for me, this is a non-issue. I enjoy both: Both readers are wonderfully responsive and a joy to use.

Both screens, too, are beautifully clear, with the Voyage being a smidgen darker on the letters. Hardly noticeable at all.

ENJOY!
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Old 11-12-2016, 03:56 PM   #43
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It's a safe bet that you're wrong, simply because the three-year extended warranty includes a free battery replacement, just as the Voyage's does: if they had to pay out on that a lot, they'd lose money. The Voyage battery definitely does not last eighteen years!
I didn't realize that. Good information. However, it doesn't really change the calculation.

Quote:
In practice, the Oasis's normal use pattern involves a lot of very shallow discharges of the case battery. I think I've gone below 40% only three or four times, and most of the time it's around 60--70% when it gets chucked back in the cover for another top-up. Li-ion batteries last a *lot* more charging cycles if the cycles are shallow. Really a lot more. High thousands to tens of thousands. "Effective infinity", in practice, because some other component will fail first...
If you read the section on caring for lithium ion batteries at:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries

you'll see that they agree that shallow discharging cycles make a difference, as you say, but not nearly as much as you describe. It might be enough to throw my calculations off by 20% or so but these are all ballpark numbers anyway so I don't think that's enough to matter.

Barry
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:06 PM   #44
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That's my thought too. I *never* had to stop reading because I ran out of juice on my old Kindle Keyboard or on the "new" PW, even though the battery capacity of the PW is lower then on the Keyboard. But ergonomics is important and so is the back lit screen (IMHO the best feature of the PW, when it was introduced). But if the Voyage has a sensor that automatically adjusts screen brightness that would be appreciated.


Down here they aren't .

This whole new Kindle thing came about because my wife started using my old Keyboard and logically got envious of me not needing to use a lamp to read my PW in bed. So that got me thinking of getting a new model for me and passing on my PW to her. But like I said, I have to convince myself that I really need to spend money on a substitute for something that is working marvelously well .
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:07 PM   #45
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Voyage is On Sale Nuf Reason https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Ref...MNKRJ4SJVY14EC
The New ones are not on sale this time. [Last week they were...cause I was also tempted]
for this! I ordered the refurb Voyage; it arrived today and the screen is beautiful. I must admit I was a bit uncertain because of all the discussion about bad screens and light cones, but no problems with mine.

ETA: Karma as thanks

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