03-05-2021, 06:43 PM | #61 |
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In this circumstance, I thought it would be covered by the "fair use" doctrine.
https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html |
03-05-2021, 06:59 PM | #62 | |
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What matters is that the illustrator holds the illustration copyright. For better or worse, copyright most of the time depends on date of death, not date of publication. Theodor Seuss Geisel died 1991. He was also an illustrator. If he made this illustration, then the distinction in copyright is moot. |
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03-05-2021, 07:07 PM | #63 |
Treachery of images ...
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Here in Australia, image copyright was the date of the image at the time of original publication of that book, which was 1935 wasn't it
edit:1937 Last edited by Lynx-lynx; 03-05-2021 at 07:09 PM. |
03-05-2021, 07:36 PM | #64 | |
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Mobileread is hosted in the EU and follows EU copyright law. |
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03-05-2021, 07:54 PM | #65 |
Treachery of images ...
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Oh thank heavens the US hosting finished.
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03-05-2021, 09:18 PM | #66 |
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Regarding the ability of literature to lock children into a POV, I'm old enough to remember the panic over the Heather Has Two Moms sort of book. And thirty years later, rather than the two moms set having taken over, I'm reading Where have all the lesbians gone?
Even if my last link is exaggerated, the earlier campaign against freedom to read gay-friendly children's books failed to understand the role of literature, as does this one. Did Theodor Seuss Geisel want to convince African-American children that they should move to Africa and become hunter-gatherers? I doubt it. But if he did, he's been wildly unsuccessful. Suppose the Geisel family finds an unpublished Seuss manuscript titled How to Poison the Non-White Kid in Your Class. Should they seek out an extremist publisher? No. But that's not the range these freedom to read kerfuffles ever get into. Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 03-05-2021 at 09:23 PM. |
03-06-2021, 04:30 AM | #67 | |||
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I think the problem with that book is that the only picture of a Chinese person is of someone in stereotypical clothing and stereotypical accessories. The problem isn't so much the image on its own, but its context.
There's a white man who's interesting to look at because he has an absurdly long beard, and a white man who's interesting to look at because he is a magician, and a Chinese man who's interesting to look at because he is Chinese. If the book had also had Chinese people who were interesting to look at because they were driving airplanes, or were firefighters, or were eating an absurdly large cake, and if it also had some white people who were interesting to look at because of their ethnicity (a Scot in kilt playing a bagpipe, a Norwegian in bunad eating lutefisk), or even just a few Chinese people among the extras in the background, wearing top hats and playing instruments, I think the book would have been fine. As it is, it tells children that being Chinese or of Chinese descent is weird and exotic, and being European or of European descent is normal. That's not a great message to give to any child, no matter their ancestry. Quote:
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I see its role as a mirror -- showing us what we can be -- and as a window -- giving us insight into other people and other worlds (and as a source of joy and entertainment, of course). Both the mirror and the window fails us if it distorts some types of people into exotic or weird cliches. (Your last link seem to promote some kind of transphobic conspiracy theory, and doesn't seem relevant to this discussion.) Heh, I'm writing quite a lot about this tea cup I'll end with this Goldberg quote: Quote:
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03-06-2021, 06:12 AM | #68 |
Treachery of images ...
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"Seuss himself later revised the 1937 title Mulberry Street, saying that: “I had a gentleman with a pigtail. I colored him yellow and called him a Chinaman. That’s the way thing were 50 years ago. In later editions I refer to him as a Chinese man. I have taken the color out of the gentleman and removed the pigtail."
http://www.theguardian.com/books/202...ishman.” The article makes clear that the sales of the books are increasing, in the US in any event, which feeds into the theory mentioned by several posters in this thread that that may have been a tactic. Last edited by Lynx-lynx; 03-06-2021 at 06:21 AM. |
03-06-2021, 06:54 AM | #69 | |
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I know there are some people who will deny this and either refuse to look at the evidence or who will interpret anything he says as racist light. I met such people in college in the mid 80s and their number has increased. |
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03-06-2021, 06:56 AM | #70 |
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03-06-2021, 07:02 AM | #71 |
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03-06-2021, 07:22 AM | #72 | |
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Withdrawing books because you personally find them offensive isn't complicated, it's very straight forward. It's also a very good argument for no copyright if a book isn't available for purchase. No one is unalloyed good. If that's your standard, then you might as well get the gas out because you are going to be burning pretty much every book written. |
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03-06-2021, 07:24 AM | #73 | ||
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Should Indians be offended that the Indian figure in the book is riding atop an elephant? Isn't that stereotypical? What about the fact that the elephant is blue? Was Dr. Seuss making fun of the Hindu deity Ganesha who is often portrayed as blue and who has an elephant head? What should we make of the fact that there were no female characters in the book? Does that tell children that women are not important? |
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03-06-2021, 07:27 AM | #74 | |
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03-06-2021, 08:04 AM | #75 | ||
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However, I do have a problem with withdrawing the book for that reason. Quote:
In times of moral panic, I wish they would just leave my grandkids books alone. Provide a wider perspective. If the librarian finds that almost all of their children's books treat people of color as weird and exotic -- which would mean it was an extraordinarily weird library -- the remedy is to supplement with other kinds of books. But if hardly any of their books show people of color as weird and exotic -- or just to make sure a wide range of perspectives are in their collection -- they should, if they can afford it, buy the withdrawn titles while still available. If they can't afford it (more likley ), And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street enters the U.S. public domain on January 1, 2033. Even if retail outlets remain limited, I hope for brisk sales to send the message that book suppression backfires. |
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