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Old 01-30-2021, 04:35 AM   #61
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As far as the customer is concerned, the prices are supposed to be LOWER now.
As far as the customer is concerned the price shown is the price paid

VAT is not charged on these books, the publisher just kept the original price

I would guess the majority of customers have no idea, the price has just stayed the same

Blame the publishers, Amazon (and Kobo) are selling at the price told
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Old 01-30-2021, 05:46 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by paulsalter View Post
As far as the customer is concerned the price shown is the price paid

VAT is not charged on these books, the publisher just kept the original price

I would guess the majority of customers have no idea, the price has just stayed the same

Blame the publishers, Amazon (and Kobo) are selling at the price told
The publisher RAISED prices. The greedy self-serving publisher RAISED prices.

The idea was to give people a price break because of the virus and they took that and decided to screw their customers.

Yes, at Kobo, prices also do not reflect no VAT. The same greedy self-serving publishers are doing a good job screwing their customers.
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Old 01-30-2021, 06:29 AM   #63
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The publisher has not raised prices, they have stayed the same

Morally I agree they should have reduced the price

UK VAT is not the same as US Sales tax, over here it is built into the price, not an added extra

The customer is no worse off, but the publisher is better off
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Old 01-30-2021, 06:48 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by paulsalter View Post
The publisher has not raised prices, they have stayed the same

Morally I agree they should have reduced the price

UK VAT is not the same as US Sales tax, over here it is built into the price, not an added extra

The customer is no worse off, but the publisher is better off
You have an eBook price of £3.99 with VAT. When you remove VAT, the price should then be £3.32. So if the price with and without VAT is £3.99, the price did increase. At £3.99, the publisher has raised the price. The publisher is cheating customers.

The publisher should not have reduced the price. The publisher should not have raised the price and the lack of VAT would have reduced the price.

But given that some publishers at eBooks.com have their eBooks sold with the VAT reduction, why isn't this happening at Amazon and Kobo?
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Old 01-30-2021, 07:09 AM   #65
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The publisher RAISED prices. The greedy self-serving publisher RAISED prices.
No they didn't.

That is just factually incorrect.

Prices stayed the same, the publishers kept more of the sale price.

(On books where the VAT removal was not passed on.)
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Old 01-30-2021, 07:11 AM   #66
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You have an eBook price of £3.99 with VAT. When you remove VAT, the price should then be £3.32. So if the price with and without VAT is £3.99, the price did increase. At £3.99, the publisher has raised the price.
Your argument:

- The price was £3.99
- The price is now £3.99
- The price has increased

Umm.
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Old 01-30-2021, 07:36 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
You have an eBook price of £3.99 with VAT. When you remove VAT, the price should then be £3.32. So if the price with and without VAT is £3.99, the price did increase. At £3.99, the publisher has raised the price. The publisher is cheating customers.
You are thinking to much on how US sales tax works

£3.99 is the price of the book, the price without VAT is irrelevant and not something that is used (from a consumer point of view)

The book was £3.99, it is now still £3.99 for someone buying the book there is no difference in price, it has not gone up, it has remained at £3.99

EDIT: I see these points where also made above, sorry for duplicating
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Old 01-30-2021, 08:15 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by paulsalter View Post
You are thinking to much on how US sales tax works

£3.99 is the price of the book, the price without VAT is irrelevant and not something that is used (from a consumer point of view)

The book was £3.99, it is now still £3.99 for someone buying the book there is no difference in price, it has not gone up, it has remained at £3.99

EDIT: I see these points where also made above, sorry for duplicating
You are wrong here. VAT was removed from eBooks. The priced then became £3.32. The publisher raised the price to £3.99.

If it worked as you said, the publisher would have had to raise the price before VAT removal to whatever it needed to be so with no VAT it would go down to £3.99.

How do you remove VAT from something and have the price stay the same without the non-VAT price being raised?
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Old 01-30-2021, 10:12 AM   #69
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You are wrong here. VAT was removed from eBooks. The priced then became £3.32.

No it didn't.

Again, you do not understand how VAT works.

It does not affect directly the price the consumer pays. Changing the VAT level does not mean automatic change in prices, any more than changing the level of corporation tax would. It is not US sales tax.

The seller decides what price to charge, that is the price the consumer pays.

From that price, the seller has to remit a certain percentage to the government. That is what is controlled by the VAT level.

Quote:
How do you remove VAT from something and have the price stay the same without the non-VAT price being raised?
For a consumer, the concept of non-VAT price is meaningless. All consumer goods are (legally required to be) priced with VAT included, the displayed price is the price paid.

Non-VAT prices only have any meaning for business to business transactions.

Last edited by murraypaul; 01-30-2021 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 01-30-2021, 11:25 AM   #70
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Has it ever been newsworthy that a company chose not to pass on their new savings to customers? I think it would be more noteworthy if they did.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:37 PM   #71
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No it didn't.

Again, you do not understand how VAT works.

It does not affect directly the price the consumer pays. Changing the VAT level does not mean automatic change in prices, any more than changing the level of corporation tax would. It is not US sales tax.

The seller decides what price to charge, that is the price the consumer pays.

From that price, the seller has to remit a certain percentage to the government. That is what is controlled by the VAT level.



For a consumer, the concept of non-VAT price is meaningless. All consumer goods are (legally required to be) priced with VAT included, the displayed price is the price paid.

Non-VAT prices only have any meaning for business to business transactions.
I know the price shown is the price paid. Before VAT was removed from eBooks, the price of £3.99 included VAT. With VAT removed, the price should now be £3.32. But the publisher raised the price. The £3.99 price is without VAT because VAT is no longer charged for eBooks. The publisher raised the price 68p to keep it the same as it was with VAT.

Your saying the price did not go up is wrong. The price of the eBook was increased. Granted, it's the same as with VAT but only because of the price increase.

Take sales tax in Massachusetts. The rate is 6.5%. Take an eBook that costs $3.99. The price you will pay is $4.25. If you are not paying sales tax, the price will be $3.99.

In the UK before the VAT removal from eBooks, £3.99 includes VAT. When VAT is removed, the price should then be £3.32. But because it's £3.99, that means the price was increased. How can you say the price was not increased? It clearly was.

I asked my wife and she agrees with me and she comes from the Scotland. She also knows how sales tax in the US works.

Last edited by JSWolf; 01-30-2021 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:38 PM   #72
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Has it ever been newsworthy that a company chose not to pass on their new savings to customers? I think it would be more noteworthy if they did.
What would be truly newsworthy would be for JSWolf to use facts, logic, and word meaning in anything remotely resembling truth and good faith.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:44 PM   #73
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What would be truly newsworthy would be for JSWolf to use facts, logic, and word meaning in anything remotely resembling truth and good faith.
Please prove to me that I am not correct about VAT.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:59 PM   #74
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Please prove to me that I am not correct about VAT.
Since you do not accept facts, correct logic, and actual meanings of words, that is not possible.
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Old 01-30-2021, 05:06 PM   #75
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Take sales tax in Massachusetts.
No, don't.

I give up, you are unwilling or unable to be taught.

VAT is not the sale as sales tax.

With sales tax you start with a product price and add on the tax to come up with a sales price.

With VAT the sales price is always the same, but a differing level of the money received is paid in tax.

£3.99 is £3.99, no matter how many times you try to say it isn't.

Quote:
In the UK before the VAT removal from eBooks, £3.99 includes VAT. When VAT is removed, the price should then be £3.32. But because it's £3.99, that means the price was increased. How can you say the price was not increased? It clearly was.
I'm not sure you know what the word price means.

The money paid by the customer to the shop (the price, in countries with VAT) is the same before and after the VAT change. What has changed is what happens to the money afterwards.

Quote:
You have an eBook price of £3.99 with VAT. When you remove VAT, the price should then be £3.32. So if the price with and without VAT is £3.99, the price did increase. At £3.99, the publisher has raised the price.
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Last edited by murraypaul; 01-30-2021 at 05:11 PM.
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