UK ebooks VAT 20%->0% 1st May 2020

[JSWolf]

When is the media going to come out and do a tell all on why most eBooks have not dropped in price with the VAT removal?

[stumped]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When is the media going to come out and do a tell all on why most eBooks have not dropped in price with the VAT removal?

i guess that will not happen unless multiple people tip them off that there's a story to write - & I have no idea how to do that.

via social media probably but I don't use it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by stumped

i guess that will not happen unless multiple people tip them off that there's a story to write - & I have no idea how to do that.

via social media probably but I don't use it.

I would have thought that by now at least the tech blogs would be all over this.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would have thought that by now at least the tech blogs would be all over this.

Maybe because they know it is too early to know what the publishers will do yet.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would have thought that by now at least the tech blogs would be all over this.

Maybe they've done their investigation and discovered that there is no story.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would have thought that by now at least the tech blogs would be all over this.

It has happened.
There is a shortage of outrage, though.

Remember this from tbe other thread?

https://www.thebookseller.com/blogs/...-story-1201919

https://www.thebookseller.com/blogs/...ndfall-1201896

In his recent blog, 'Amazon's VAT Windfall', Anthony McGowan expressed concern that the Bezos behemoth had not changed e-book prices following the recent VAT cut, and were set to profit to the tune of millions as a result. He and I have been arguing on Twitter, very politely I might add, about this as I think he's got it wrong.

The problem is the media's kneejerk reaction is to blame Amazon instead of the publishers.

Don't expect consumer sympathy from them. Don't forget the media types are publishers themselves.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It has happened.
There is a shortage of outrage, though.

Remember this from tbe other thread?

https://www.thebookseller.com/blogs/...-story-1201919

https://www.thebookseller.com/blogs/...ndfall-1201896



The problem is the media's kneejerk reaction is to blame Amazon instead of the publishers.

Don't expect consumer sympathy from them. Don't forget the media types are publishers themselves.

While they don't have everything correct, at least it's being reported.

[tweety]

I thought the NET book agreement was dropped years ago (illegal?).

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by tweety

I thought the NET book agreement was dropped years ago (illegal?).

Yes and Net on drugs in Pharmacies. The last two legal Supplier controls of retail price in the UK. Not sure when in Ireland. But this is a different agreement, it's international and implemented by Amazon, Apple, Google and others for ebooks and apps. It's nothing to do with the old Net Book law (originally suppliers could set retail price of nearly anything).
I agree, it should be stopped. Electronic formats sold via the Internet should not have a magically different status. The clue is the percentage paid by the retailers of the retail price to the supplier. That's wrong. The supplier should get 100% of whatever price they set to the retailer and then it's up to the retailer to set the retail price and thus their margin.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The supplier should get 100% of whatever price they set to the retailer and then it's up to the retailer to set the retail price and thus their margin.

Good luck with that. Thank Apple and the publishers for the switch to the agency model.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Yes and Net on drugs in Pharmacies. The last two legal Supplier controls of retail price in the UK. Not sure when in Ireland. But this is a different agreement, it's international and implemented by Amazon, Apple, Google and others for ebooks and apps. It's nothing to do with the old Net Book law (originally suppliers could set retail price of nearly anything).
I agree, it should be stopped. Electronic formats sold via the Internet should not have a magically different status. The clue is the percentage paid by the retailers of the retail price to the supplier. That's wrong. The supplier should get 100% of whatever price they set to the retailer and then it's up to the retailer to set the retail price and thus their margin.

Implemented *on* Amazon. Against their stated preferences.

http://publishingtrendsetter.com/ind...-agency-model/


-Amazon didn't want to give up the ability to discount ebooks as a promotion tool. They used about half the hardcover price for ebooks.

- Apple didn't want to compete on price so they wanted a 30/70 split and a standard price range for *all* books. Everywhere.

- The big publishers wanted somebody, anybody, to compete with Amazon and keep them from getting too big. So, even though 70% of the Apple prices was less than they got from Amazon, they agreed with Apple's terms and collarated in all demanding the exact same terms from Apple.

- Of course, multiple suppliers coordinating to charge the exact same price for the exact same product is, ahem, price fixing. And illegal in most places (except for Germany and France, where books are "special"). The US Department of Justice doesn't share that opinion. Neither did the judge who heard the case.

- Agency by itself isn't illegal; the crime was the collusion. So the publishers were required to negotiate independently. By then, Amazon had discovered Agency worked fine for them (see below) so they "grudgingly" agreed to give the big publishers price control, in return for a bigger cut on books above a certain price (rumored to be $12).

The reason Amazon didn't fight hard against Agency Part Deux, is that during the collusion days, their market share grew by a third, and many of their competitors fell by the wayside. And the big publishers who had provided 60% of Amazon's ebooks had dropped to 40%. At last report, they were around 25%. Amazon aren't selling less ebooks, though. The BPH's lost market share is going to smaller traditional publishers, micro presses, and Independent author/publishers. And Amazon's publishing subsidiary.

The reason being that in the wholesale pricing days, Amazon charged Indies 50% of list to carry the books on Kindle but once they heard of the collusion 30/70 split, they switched KDP to a 30% fee. With BPH book prices going up and Indie distribution costs going down, Indie prices got very competitive and a lot of readers got used to buying from them.

So the big publishers got control over the price of their ebooks but lost control of the ebook market.

Which is fine by Amazon.

So, when it comes to the VAT drop, Amazon is dropping the price on the books they control and Indie publishers are dropping prices if they feel like it. Traditional publishers may or not but they probably won't because they rely heavily on pbook sales and those are down because of the crisis and aren't going back up soon. And those glass tower offices aren't cheap, whether in Manhattan or London.

It's not safe to hold your breath expecting prices to go down other than APub titles. If some do come down, enjoy it.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

- The big publishers wanted somebody, anybody, to compete with Amazon and keep them from getting too big. So, even though 70% of the Apple prices was less than they got from Amazon, they agreed with Apple's terms and collarated in all demanding the exact same terms from Apple.

Except essentially a Net Book agreement does nothing to stop Amazon. It just means Amazon can use discounting as a weapon, except they are via subscription models and exclusive sales such as the KDP Select.
If that was the publisher's aim, it was stupid and pointless as Amazon now has over 90% of ebooks.
Also really it's illegal in the UK, Ireland and other places for producers to set retail prices. Uber, AirBnB, Amazon, Google etc can't expect to have different laws just because they are "distance selling".

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Except essentially a Net Book agreement does nothing to stop Amazon. It just means Amazon can use discounting as a weapon, except they are via subscription models and exclusive sales such as the KDP Select.
If that was the publisher's aim, it was stupid and pointless as Amazon now has over 90% of ebooks.
Also really it's illegal in the UK, Ireland and other places for producers to set retail prices. Uber, AirBnB, Amazon, Google etc can't expect to have different laws just because they are "distance selling".

It *was* stupid.
Because it prevented any kind discounting by *anybody*. No bundling, no BOGO, no micropayment rebates. Nothing.
Everybody had to sell the exact same product at the exact same price. No differentiation.

Well, if the price is the same everywhere, what do customers do?
Go to the store with the biggest catalog, the best return policies, the best customer service, and (at the time) the only ereader with Pearl screens and direct downloads and didn't need a PC to feed it.

Before Agency, people shopped around for the best deals, afterwards, they had no reason not to go with Amazon.

Instead of killing Amazon they killed their competitors.
With enemies like that you barely need friends.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It *was* stupid.
Because it prevented any kind discounting by *anybody*. No bundling, no BOGO, no micropayment rebates. Nothing.
Everybody had to sell the exact same product at the exact same price. No differentiation.

Well, if the price is the same everywhere, what do customers do?
Go to the store with the biggest catalog, the best return policies, the best customer service, and (at the time) the only ereader with Pearl screens and direct downloads and didn't need a PC to feed it.

Before Agency, people shopped around for the best deals, afterwards, they had no reason not to go with Amazon.

Instead of killing Amazon they killed their competitors.
With enemies like that you barely need friends.

And because of this, shops closed that were doing well such as Fictionwise and BooksOnBoard because they could not maintain their business models.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Instead of killing Amazon they killed their competitors.
With enemies like that you barely need friends.

I'd go with "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"

Or an old oldie: May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies. -- attributed to Voltaire