Professor blasts e-books over unfulfilled promise

[Rev. Bob]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I wouldn't want any enhancements to be automatic, though. I'd want them to be unobtrusive unless I specifically wanted a particular item. Something along the lines of a clickable footnote, perhaps.

Speaking of clickable options, I read the second "Machine of Death" anthology a month or so back. One of the stories, "Your Choice", was written in the old "Choose Your Own Adventure" format: numbered sections with a choice at the bottom of each that would point to a different section based on the reader's choice. ("If you go upstairs, go to section 25. If you go downstairs, go to section 37.")

That would have been a perfect place for internal hyperlinks...but the publisher didn't do it. That was such a missed opportunity that I called it out in my review.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

I'm not arguing the technology isn't there, I'm saying the economics aren't there to compel using the technology. Smoothing the rough edges is a task given to junior programmers. Senior programmers are assigned to engineering the enhancements...

Either I'm not explaining clearly, or you're misunderstanding me.

EPUB as it is now, does not have to change.

To create an e-book, you don't need to be a programmer. You only need to understand a bit of HTML and CSS. Now that Sigil (EPUB editor) is maturing, creating an EPUB, and thus an e-book is becoming ridiculously easy; it's no more difficult than creating a Word document.

The fact that e-books look like crap isn't because EPUB has to be redesigned or be reprogrammed or enhanced; it's because (some) publishers are (still) treating e-books as second rank products, and are not using the capabilities of the standard to its fullest.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by queenfrostine

It does so only because of the limitations of its printed format. If a cook book ebook took advantage of its digital format by including instructional videos on, say, proper knife skills, would doing so really make it less of a book?

I don't think it would make it less of a book and some places would be equipped to produce something along these lines perhaps.

The problems I see at present are:
Would videos work on an eink device and if not would ample warning be provided?

Would all of the added content be part of the book or would one have to go online to view it? Personally I would be frustrated to have to go online. I would be extremely upset if the online content had it's url changed or if I was away from internet access, but I don't like the idea of accidentally hitting a link and being taken away from where I was for perhaps minutes at a time.

Would the cost of providing the content make the book too expensive? Sure the Food Network already has videos, Time-Life could probably afford to make or purchase them, but what would the author average author have to pay to include video content. Not too much if they are of the quality of YouTube DIY videos, but do I really want that included. Not that I would be likely to look up knife techniques while reading a cookbook, but there are things I might.

Would I have to install a separate app to view the book? I would not be to keen on that idea either. Would I need a separate app for my reader, my tablet, my PC and my Mac? Could happen.


I love looking through cookbooks, and drooling at the pictures, but recently I have noticed a trend in ecookbooks to go picture free. This even in the case of where the paper book is published with pictures. I prefer pictures, but would take better recipes overall even for drooling purposes.

I have downloaded various demos and samples of children's books that were supposedly rich in multimedia content, and found them to be pretty mundane, and/or frustrating to use/view. If they can't do it right with a Nursery Rhyme, I doubt that the wonderful multimedia ecookbook is just around the corner.

Helen

[queenfrostine]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

I think the issues with multi-media "books" are 1) the reading experience, 2) the technological capabilities of the device.

1) The reading experience.

In picture books (like Where the Wild Things Are) and graphic novels, the text and illustration are integrated for an immersive experience.

I have difficulty seeing how audio and video clips, etc. could be integrated into the same kind of immersive, integrated experience.

But not all books are meant to be immersive experiences. Even with paper books, many are designed to have you stop and do something as you work through a book. And they are not a small minority of books. Think about the layout of your local large book seller. Fiction and narrative nonfiction take up only about half of the store. That other half is filled with books on music, health/diet/medicine, languages, travel, food, lots of how-to type stuff that are not meant to be consumed like a novel. But they're still books, and as more people move away from print to e-readers and tablets, these too will become more popular in ebook form. And they could benefit from multimedia content.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by queenfrostine

But not all books are meant to be immersive experiences. Even with paper books, many are designed to have you stop and do something as you work through a book. And they are not a small minority of books. Think about the layout of your local large book seller. Fiction and narrative nonfiction take up only about half of the store. That other half is filled with books on music, health/diet/medicine, languages, travel, food, lots of how-to type stuff that are not meant to be consumed like a novel. But they're still books, and as more people move away from print to e-readers and tablets, these too will become more popular in ebook form. And they could benefit from multimedia content.

What you say is true, but I again wonder about cost. There are many self help videos and audiobooks which often sell at several times the cost of the printed version. Would the majority of the reading public, or even a minority be prepared to pay $100 say for an enhanced self help ebook. I have bought several tapes/CD's/DVD's on different things after reading a book that suggested them, But would I have bought them sight unseen without reading the book first. Nope.

And if the author is already successful selling these products they are not going to want to take less. How much enhancement can be put into a music book or a travel book that would not cost the author a fair chunk of change to include and would the public be willing to pay the increased costs in enough numbers for the author to break even. Most authors do not make much, if any, money as it is.

Helen

[Josieb1]

No, I don't want or need anything other than text with my ebooks.

[mycurlylocks]

I do enjoy enhanced non-fiction books. I bought an enhanced book on John Kennedy and I really enjoyed seeing the old film clips and hearing the voices again. I didn't even remember what Jacqueline sounded like.

For fiction, no. I prefer to use my imagination.

I must admit, for very young readers, enhancement would probably attract them to the books.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

To create an e-book, you don't need to be a programmer. You only need to understand a bit of HTML and CSS. Now that Sigil (EPUB editor) is maturing, creating an EPUB, and thus an e-book is becoming ridiculously easy; it's no more difficult than creating a Word document.

Nearly all Word document I have looked at more carefully have bugs in their style files and bugs in the usage of the style file (or they do not use a style file at all). So I really hop the tools like Sigil do better than Word in creating correct documents easily.

[Rev. Bob]

Originally Posted by tompe

Nearly all Word document I have looked at more carefully have bugs in their style files and bugs in the usage of the style file (or they do not use a style file at all). So I really hop the tools like Sigil do better than Word in creating correct documents easily.

I have yet to find an ebook that does everything right. Not from the Big Six, not from self-publishers, not from small presses. Adobe, Sigil, it makes no difference. There are always mistakes, and I'm not talking about grammar or punctuation.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

To create an e-book, you don't need to be a programmer. You only need to understand a bit of HTML and CSS. Now that Sigil (EPUB editor) is maturing, creating an EPUB, and thus an e-book is becoming ridiculously easy; it's no more difficult than creating a Word document.

The fact that e-books look like crap isn't because EPUB has to be redesigned or be reprogrammed or enhanced; it's because (some) publishers are (still) treating e-books as second rank products, and are not using the capabilities of the standard to its fullest.

I'm not a fan of publishers but I believe they (or most of them anyway) are more interested in making money than books. That's why I think it's an economic issue. I don't think (most) publishers are interested in making books (regular or ebooks) look either good or bad-I think they're interested in making them look whatever way will make them the most money.

As it happens I disagree with your contention that you don't need to be a programmer. But then I disagree with most programmers about who is a programmer, too so perhaps it's our definitions of 'programmer' that differs. If you work with the raw HTML & CSS then, IMO, you're a programmer. If, OTOH, you use Sigil to produce HTML-encoded documents (ebooks) then you might not be a programmer. (Programmers can use tools like Sigil too.)

I haven't used Sigil. I understand it's free-so if it works why aren't publishers using it? Perhaps its training costs. As I said before I doubt if most publishers have any interest in producing books that look bad so the question is why they're doing it. IMO it's got to come down to money. Either the books need to be fixed manually, which is expensive, or tools that work aren't available, or the available tools that work require training to use-and that's also expensive. I'm not in the industry so I don't know which it is-it might even be that you're right & the poor quality is due to publishers' dislike of ebooks. I don't really believe that but I've been wrong once or twice before.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

I'm not a fan of publishers but I believe they (or most of them anyway) are more interested in making money than books. That's why I think it's an economic issue. I don't think (most) publishers are interested in making books (regular or ebooks) look either good or bad-I think they're interested in making them look whatever way will make them the most money.

Therefore... If you make it look (and work) better, it will make you more money.

As it happens I disagree with your contention that you don't need to be a programmer. But then I disagree with most programmers about who is a programmer, too so perhaps it's our definitions of 'programmer' that differs. If you work with the raw HTML & CSS then, IMO, you're a programmer. If, OTOH, you use Sigil to produce HTML-encoded documents (ebooks) then you might not be a programmer. (Programmers can use tools like Sigil too.)

Nah. Writing HTML and CSS is not really programming. Not in my view. Programming is writing stuff with functions, and variables, and making the computer run stuff

I haven't used Sigil. I understand it's free-so if it works why aren't publishers using it?

Some do. Some also use Calibre. I have some bought e-books that have Sigil and/or Calibre metadata in them, right from the store.

Mostly however, the big publishers are using some sort of automated process; all o their books have the same file naming conventions, the same classes, and (basically) the same layout.

Perhaps its training costs. As I said before I doubt if most publishers have any interest in producing books that look bad so the question is why they're doing it.

I think that there are some books that just don't fit their automated e-book creation software very well, and then it turns out a broken e-book. Probably they don't check each and every book.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The fact that e-books look like crap isn't because EPUB has to be redesigned or be reprogrammed or enhanced; it's because (some) publishers are (still) treating e-books as second rank products, and are not using the capabilities of the standard to its fullest.

Which is why the development of enhancement technology has nothing to do with it. "Sloppy work" is just that: a result of design/editing decisions made during the creation of individual ebooks. There isn't an option to say "we're gonna stop R&D for the entire medium until Bill in cubicle six over at Harpers gets his chapter headings formatted nicely." If anything, sloppy work like you mentioned may cause problems for content enhancement, putting a spotlight on such work and making it less tolerable. Either way, it's two separate issues. edit: but indeed, they do seem to treat ebooks like second rank products. I'm optimistic about that changing with time.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

I understand it's free-so if it works why aren't publishers using it?

Their workflows are built around preparing PDFs for pbook printing.
Trad-publishers are pbook-first operations; ebooks are, at best, an afterthought.

[TechniSol]

Originally Posted by warlord0

I love technology, but it has it's place. If I wanted a rich active experience I'd choose a tablet. In fact a tablet with it's vibrant colours is great for a comic book read, but limited in its usefulness once you venture into the sunlight.

A e-Ink reader is far superior for feeding my imagination with the words from the page coming alive in my own head in their own flavour. It's the reason I can't get on with audio book, I just can't get past the narrators own inflection on something I'd prefer to apply my own to.

I recently went from grey to paperwhite and have been asked repeatedly why I didn't just get a fruit or robot tablet instead. As good as they are at what they do, they still can't seem to compete with the way e-Ink is just so readable - everywhere. Lightweight, a handy size and infinite battery life in comparison to a tablet.

For me the text is meant to feed my imagination. If it becomes interactive verbal or graphical I may as well sit in front of the TV and have the director feed my imagination with the creations of his special effects team, which are nowhere near on par with the team I have working inside my own head.

I get what you're saying imagination is closely linked with reading, but that doesn't mean you have to explore other options or that they should not be encouraged. Some things are so much more easily explained by a simple map or illustration. I know part of a writer's job is to be descriptive, but some things are very difficult to describe without being hopelessly complex or clumsy. Also, some graphics can be as impressive as some covers. Don't tell me you've never bought a book because of the cover...

The way I see it is that extras that don't work on a particular technology would just not be presented as options, no video capability -no video links, no audio -no audio links, etc. Since the multimedia extensions would only be options, I don't see how having them could really be any bother to those wishing not to experience them. So on an e-ink reader it looks like an epub, maybe with graphics available at best, on a tablet or other multimedia device it can take on a richness not available in e-ink now. Everyone but those who must have exactly everything their way is happy.

As Lemurian mentioned, can you imagine a 3D-Time variable map of a space armada's movements that you can twirl around and view from different viewpoints? Way cool. I can think of a lot of things described in sci-fi that I'd love to be able to see as the author intended.(of course that may be part of the problem when someone else must render them) I love to read, but I'm interested to view a film or even a graphic novel interpretation in part to see the difference between how I "saw" it and how they were able to depict it. With good CGI and people who strive for faithful adaptation, I'd say that the sky is the limit these days.

I'm not saying ebooks should be turned into commercially supported TV, the commercials should be restricted to those who wish to view them or want the content for free, if in fact they must be suffered at all. OTOH, it does open up the possibility of stories with links to multimedia that could not have been produced without commercial backing. Writing a book is much cheaper than making a movie -even a short one with rendered CGI characters.

[Catlady]

I'm thinking of audio or video enhancements to nonfiction as being pretty much in the same category as other supporting material that we have now, whether it's illustrations and photos, descriptive footnotes, appendices, etc.--material that is not strictly necessary, but useful to refer to if the reader so desires.

If an appendix now might include the full text of a speech, why wouldn't it be a good idea to also have an audio clip of that speech as it was delivered at the time (not some actor offering a rendition--the real deal if it was recorded).

If one is reading a book on film, wouldn't it be useful to be able to see a clip of a scene being analyzed, rather than just a handful of stills of the scene, as might be included now?

I think there's a lot of potential for enhancements being gimmicky and stupid, but they could also be very useful if included in the right way.