Professor blasts e-books over unfulfilled promise

[Kai Winters]

Blah, blah, blah...That is his opinion and he is welcome to it.
I'd much rather read the "pixel" based ebook.
I can change the background to black with a yellow tint to the font...of my choice of course...as well as increasing or decreasing the brightness of the sheet when reading at night. During the day a nice off white background with black font and choice of brightness suits me just fine.
I can carry hundreds, or more, books in my pants pocket and nobody notices...imagine trying that with tree based books.
Depending on the reader and where I am I can also buy a book, newspaper, magazine from my comfy, cozy spot and voila it is "delivered" to my reader in a very short period of time....sometimes even at no cost...WOW !

I'll keep my pixels thank you very much...

However I might rather enjoy the capability of an ebook that would have embedded within a variety of video, audio additions to "enhance" the experience. Imagine reading a book...say "The Hobbit" and while reading the many songs you could actually listen to them by merely clicking on a "link"? or perhaps a short video of something that pertains...or maybe yet "sound effects"..."It was a dark and stormy night" to quote from Snoopy, and have some sound effects jump in while on that page, etc. That could be fun or get old fast if it is too much and too frequent...hopefully you could shut it all off and read the "good old fashioned way" hehehe.

[LovesMacs]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

I could see how it could be interesting for a biography or non-fiction but completely unnecessary for fiction.

One possibility I can see is if a work of fiction mentions a particular song or piece of music, especially when it is important to the plot or setting. This can however get complicated when considering copyright--much classical music for example is now in the public domain but the recordings and performances are not.

Even with this possible use of multimedia, I'd still want the option of buying the regular, "unenhanced" e-book. And above all, DON'T make the audio file play by default!

[caleb72]

I'm fine with enhancements. I have a preference for just reading text most of the time, but if an author can find a way to enhance a book that I find enriches my experience, then kudos to her/him.

The medium presents an opportunity for content creators to exercise some pioneering spirit and sometimes you don't know how much of a market really exists for these ideas until you really give it a soak.

I don't feel a passionate need to have the enhancements for my reading - I like reading just fine. On the other hand, I never even imagined all the benefits of an e-reader until I actually had one. So I'll wait to see if anyone impresses me with some abracadabra and I'll take it from there.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Nonsense. It's perfectly possible to create a perfect and good looking book as an EPUB, but it just isn't done right. Having the TOC work correctly and be complete, having nice high-res covers and maps and some good looking chapter headings and section breaks goes a long way to make an e-book a good product.

Paying money for one and then discovering it's no better than crappy pirated and OCR-ed works of 10 years ago is just disappointing. There is no reason for that anymore; not since we have EPUB (and AZW3).

I wasn't very clear. It's not that it can't be done it's that the economics don't work to allow rough edges to be cleaned up prior to incorporating enhancements. (Of course there's the terminology problem too-isn't cleaning up the 'rough edges' an enhancement? But I've never seen that sort of enhancement being economically justified.) Yes, it ticks me off too-but IMO that's life.

I'm not familiar with TeX/LaTeX. From your complaint about poor formatting it appears that it either doesn't work well or isn't widely used. I'm assuming it isn't widely used. Why not? If I were a publisher & had an automated (and inexpensive) way to 're-typeset' books when I published them in a different format then I'd certainly use it.

BTW I understand about the ePub problem. It's part of the greater HTML problem. HTML was designed to deliver information, not formatting. It's been badly corrupted by marketers but it's still, at heart, an information delivery language. That doesn't have anything to do with poor quality graphics though-I'm not sure what causes that except a publisher that just doesn't care. Or could it be copyright issues? I have heard that many ebooks are published without covers because the rights to the artwork are separate from the rights to the story.

I assume the TOC issue would be solved by using the TeX/LaTeX system you mentioned. Again, why isn't it more widely used? That's a mystery to me. Is it possible that few publishers know about it? I didn't but then I'm not a publisher.

[BillSmithBooks]

I brought up the term "graphic novels" as an example of how to handle this -- the comics industry created the term to illustrate that they were doing long-form storytelling that is structurally similar to novels...but completely different because it was not only text.

For the record, I consider comics and graphic novels a GREAT form of literature...I have been a Marvel/DC and indie fan for decades. There are some amazing stories that only made sense as graphic novels/comics and prose only would not have had nearly the impact.

But I didn't stop to think about childrens' illustrated books...

I think the issues with multi-media "books" are 1) the reading experience, 2) the technological capabilities of the device.

1) The reading experience.

In picture books (like Where the Wild Things Are) and graphic novels, the text and illustration are integrated for an immersive experience.

I have difficulty seeing how audio and video clips, etc. could be integrated into the same kind of immersive, integrated experience.

Read some text, click on an audio or video file, then read some more is a REALLY different experience then straight reading.

Honestly, when reading, I want to read instead of mentally changing gears constantly.

2) The processor, memory and power requirements of these multi-media projects are going to be vastly higher than those for conventional ebooks.

Plus, as these tools become available and implemented, there will no doubt be ever increasing device requirements to use these books as publishers try to outdo each other with bells and whistles. This is not unlike how PC games kept on increasing requirements to run the newest games and so gamers were continually forced to upgrade their PCs.

I really believe that this "upgrade arms race" is what enabled consoles like XBox 360 & PS3 to become dominant -- PC gaming got to the point where you had to spend almost as much time tinkering with your PC to get it to run the newest games as you actually did gaming. As gamers had to spend more time adding memory, video cards, high-end joysticks, etc., PC gaming became a "hobbyist's" pursuit, like working on cars for a hobby.

The gaming mainstream moved to consoles because it was a lot easier for people to buy a self-contained unit that never needed to be upgraded (although hobbyists still spend lots of money on "optional" upgrades).

"Traditional" ebooks -- text, a few pictures -- have relatively low requirements and can run on comparatively primitive devices compared to what these multi-media books are going to want.

I think, if these mutli-media books flourish, you are going to see a return to the days of outdated formats, device incompatibility...and we are going to see the same transition that we saw with gaming: Most early games were designed by small teams or even solo programmers with tiny budgets. It quickly escalated to the point where budgets reached Hollywood movie levels, with the attendant corporate bureaucracy and stifling of original ideas...although some of the most innovative games are still produced by lone hobbyists and small publishers working on their own.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

I wasn't very clear. It's not that it can't be done it's that the economics don't work to allow rough edges to be cleaned up prior to incorporating enhancements.

I still don't agree. The "rough edges" in EPUB are not rough because of the technology, they are rough because of sloppy work. There's no reason for a book to not have a cover, to have mistakes in the TOC, to have a bad layout.

I'm not familiar with TeX/LaTeX. From your complaint about poor formatting it appears that it either doesn't work well or isn't widely used. I'm assuming it isn't widely used. Why not?

It can't be used for text that changes live, by changing font sizes or the viewport (window of an application) for example. TeX/LaTeX is a typesetter geared towards printed, and therefore fixed-layout works. It's not possible to do the typesetting live because it would take multiple seconds for each page, and multiple passes of the LaTeX compiler.

Would you want to wait 5 seconds or so, for a page to be rendered if you're reading an e-book? I think not.

I have heard that many ebooks are published without covers because the rights to the artwork are separate from the rights to the story.

As a customer, I don't care. I only see that the paper book looks great, and the e-book looks crap without a cover and with low-res unreadable maps. If I pay close to the price of a paper book, I want the quality of a paper book.

I assume the TOC issue would be solved by using the TeX/LaTeX system you mentioned. Again, why isn't it more widely used? That's a mystery to me. Is it possible that few publishers know about it? I didn't but then I'm not a publisher.

See above. TeX/LaTeX is widely used in the academic world, mostly for printing textbooks (and some novels too: my copy of Lord of the Rings is created using LaTeX; I recognize the font and kerning), but it's a system for typesetting fixed-layout text. (It is especially epic in typesetting mathematical equations, for which it was originally developed.) I only mentioned it to point out that typesetting has been automated a long time ago.

LaTeX can automatically generate a TOC, but so can Sigil, if you mark your chapter-headings with h1 or h2 and so on. The system a publisher uses to create the e-books would also be able to incorporate this.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

It's somewhat funny how most of the replies to these topics feel VERY similar to the discussions regarding pBook vs. eBook.
In both cases the term "book" is defined and defended and must not be deviated from, because a "book" is only a "book" when it is exactly as a "book" should be.

Heavens forbid someone try to improve upon it, then it would immediately cease to be a book and become somthing so entirely different that it must be dismissed immediately.


As with everything, it can and will be misused. But at the same time, it can greatly enhance the experience. As has been said, non-fiction books are prime examples - like in the OP, a BIOGRAPHY about a musician - no doubt, adding video and gods forbid music would instantly ruin the experience of reading the book...

Still, perhaps a fiction author wants to add something more than just text? What if an author has a character talk about a specific music - would it really be bad if the reader had the option to listen to it, so he could better understand what's going on?

My problem with so-called "enhanced" books is that all the people advocating them always seem to focus on the very things I don't want. If your "enhancement" is something I'm actively avoiding, then I'm not going to look kindly on the suggestion.

For example, most suggestions seem to revolve around adding video and sound to a book, but I read books because I don't want video or sound. I can see the benefits in some cases, but for the most part I don't want it. I much prefer reading a book to watching a documentary, and the more video and audio that's added, the further it shifts from one to the other.

The big disadvantage of audio and video for me is that it moves at its pace, not mine, and when I have to stop to do something else, I have to actively pause it, unlike text where I can stop reading and come back to it more easily. Then there's the issue that we like to read in bed, and if we're both reading "enhanced" ebooks then our respective soundtracks might conflict. For me, silence is a selling point.

You also bring up the valid point that people often see improvement as change, and fight it for that very reason. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes the change is an improvement, but other times it does change the very nature of what you're discussing, and that isn't always a good thing.

Focus on things that I can interact with at my own pace, preferably without sound, and I'm all over it. Put me into listen/watch mode then I'm no longer reading, and the more time I'm doing something else, the less I'm interested in the book.

[TechniSol]

I might ruffle a few feathers in the Purist's camp. (Yes, you Luddites are in for it! )

I'm going to take the stance that more is not a bad thing as long as people are not forced to experience it. For a biographical piece, and any number of other specialties, it would be pretty cool to have hypertext links to documents, web pages, etc. that might enhance the experience. I say, let them create the Mbook(Multimedia) category and let's benefit from it when we can. I'd still want a plain text version of most ebooks, but if they want to create another category who is anyone to stand in the way of progress?

I wonder how many would really stay purists if the enhanced multimedia content was handy and the typical ereader capable of exploiting it... Go on, you know you want to. You do it. Everybody does it. I do it! I did it twice this morning, and I'm gonna do it again. You know you want to. (with respect to Mel Brooks, It's good to be the King!)

This issue may soon come to a head if e-ink displays go color with better quality. There is no reason why Mbooks couldn't be written and displayed on Android or iOS devices except for the lack of a relevant standard and a "reader" app capable of the format.

I'm not saying that books, or ebooks must go that way, but Mbooks just open another revenue stream and may pay off big time. If we play our cards right we may eventually make it to the fully interactive experiences that could really be interesting. Imagine reading(experiencing) stories from the author's standpoint, then from another person's or many other persons if sufficient pathways and choices were offered almost like a ZORK interactive adventure, but "played" by someone else and read by you as their version of story -could be interesting, the fan fiction crowd would probably bust a collective... Nut, anyone?

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by LovesMacs

One possibility I can see is if a work of fiction mentions a particular song or piece of music, especially when it is important to the plot or setting. This can however get complicated when considering copyright--much classical music for example is now in the public domain but the recordings and performances are not.

Musopen is trying to change that.

They have a Kickstarter campaign going.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

I might ruffle a few feathers in the Purist's camp. (Yes, you Luddites are in for it! )

I'm going to take the stance that more is not a bad thing as long as people are not forced to experience it. For a biographical piece, and any number of other specialties, it would be pretty cool to have hypertext links to documents, web pages, etc. that might enhance the experience. I say, let them create the Mbook(Multimedia) category and let's benefit from it when we can. I'd still want a plain text version of most ebooks, but if they want to create another category who is anyone to stand in the way of progress?

I wonder how many would really stay purists if the enhanced multimedia content was handy and the typical ereader capable of exploiting it... Go on, you know you want to. You do it. Everybody does it. I do it! I did it twice this morning, and I'm gonna do it again. You know you want to. (with respect to Mel Brooks, It's good to be the King!)

This issue may soon come to a head if e-ink displays go color with better quality. There is no reason why Mbooks couldn't be written and displayed on Android or iOS devices except for the lack of a relevant standard and a "reader" app capable of the format.

I'm not saying that books, or ebooks must go that way, but Mbooks just open another revenue stream and may pay off big time. If we play our cards right we may eventually make it to the fully interactive experiences that could really be interesting. Imagine reading(experiencing) stories from the author's standpoint, then from another person's or many other persons if sufficient pathways and choices were offered almost like a ZORK interactive adventure, but "played" by someone else and read by you as their version of story -could be interesting, the fan fiction crowd would probably bust a collective... Nut, anyone?

I read on a quad-core HD tablet; I know it can handle the workload.

My problem is that when I'm reading a book I don't want to start some audio or video stream. We usually have the TV on in the background and it would interfere with it. I also find text is often more immersive than audio or video, so that's a factor.

Again, my issue is not with enhancement itself, I just get tired of people focusing on things I don't want and ignoring what I do want. I read a lot of space opera, and a 3-D battle map would be great, especially if I could zoom in and move it back and forth along a timeline. I can see lots of enhancements I'd love, they just never get traction when mainstream commentators talk about what's missing.

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

I'm going to take the stance that more is not a bad thing as long as people are not forced to experience it.

That would be absolutely fine however I fear that the potential for misuse is enormous. Imagine you're reading a book and one of the characters is having a coffee - and bam a Starbucks or Caffe Nero advert rears its ugly head, or the setting of the book is in Italy - and you too can book your next holiday there with X or Y travel co. And there you have it, an extra revenue stream for writers and publishers which I think would sooner or later be too attractive to resist - it could also be clothes, kitchen appliances, cars or just about anything really that could easily find its way in there (granted, it could be more or less difficult depending on the type of book )

I don't really like interruptions when reading to be honest. I might every now and then jot down a few things that I want to look into a bit more once I've finished a book but I'd rather keep things separate, otherwise for me it would just kind of break the flow.

[warlord0]

I love technology, but it has it's place. If I wanted a rich active experience I'd choose a tablet. In fact a tablet with it's vibrant colours is great for a comic book read, but limited in its usefulness once you venture into the sunlight.

A e-Ink reader is far superior for feeding my imagination with the words from the page coming alive in my own head in their own flavour. It's the reason I can't get on with audio book, I just can't get past the narrators own inflection on something I'd prefer to apply my own to.

I recently went from grey to paperwhite and have been asked repeatedly why I didn't just get a fruit or robot tablet instead. As good as they are at what they do, they still can't seem to compete with the way e-Ink is just so readable - everywhere. Lightweight, a handy size and infinite battery life in comparison to a tablet.

For me the text is meant to feed my imagination. If it becomes interactive verbal or graphical I may as well sit in front of the TV and have the director feed my imagination with the creations of his special effects team, which are nowhere near on par with the team I have working inside my own head.

[pagansoul]

I brought the Rolling Stones magazine of best 100 songs. It had samples of the music and would interact with your iTunes account to purchase the full song if you wanted (note this was on my iPad via Zinio) I loved it but without the iTunes tie-in I think it would have cost too much to produce. There are plenty of multi media ebooks out there but one should not expect all books to give that kind of experience.

[JAcheson]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

This reminds me of the early days of CD's. The CD industry touted their ability to hold an hour or more of music-but 98% of all CD's contained the same 30 minutes of music that was on the LP and nothing more. Today the industry has evolved & we have many 'enhanced' CD's. They don't affect how the music plays on a CD player so I'm not really sure how prevalent they are-I just know they're out there. They might affect how the CD plays on a computer but I prefer wearing out my sub-$100 CD player for music rather than my over-$500 PC. I guess I'm funny that way as I still replace lots of CD (DVD) drives that were worn out playing music all day.

Presumably ebooks will go a similar route, i.e. at first (now) they offer nothing more but eventually they'll be 'enhanced'. Hopefully the enhancements will be controllable, i.e. we'll be able to turn them off if we don't want them.

Ugh, bad example. I hate, hate, hate "enhanced" CDs, and will definitely not buy one if I can help it. They're always designed to be difficult to rip to MP3, which is the first thing I want to do with a CD. Doesn't prevent anyone from pirating them, and in fact that's usually how I get the MP3 version of the CD if they make it hard to rip.

I think that adding too much multimedia to a book would definitely break the paradigm. It would basically be a multimedia website at that point. Which is fine, but it's no longer a book.

You could put links to external content in the footnotes, I suppose, but those links are all going to be dead inside of 5-10 years. I'd prefer having everything self-contained.

In terms of making graphics more future-proof, one thing that can be done is to put them in a vector format like SVG. It makes the graphics far more compact in file size, and they scale up and down much better. I don't know which ebook standards support that, though, if any.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

I still don't agree. The "rough edges" in EPUB are not rough because of the technology, they are rough because of sloppy work. There's no reason for a book to not have a cover, to have mistakes in the TOC, to have a bad layout.

I'm not arguing the technology isn't there, I'm saying the economics aren't there to compel using the technology. Smoothing the rough edges is a task given to junior programmers. Senior programmers are assigned to engineering the enhancements-and guess who gets laid off first? Junior programmers. I'm not sure how to alter the economics as I don't think paying extra for decent typesetting is an option. If you could automate the typesetting conversion from print format to ebook that might do it but it doesn't sound like that technology is available yet.