Professor blasts e-books over unfulfilled promise

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Agreed, there are certainly situations where they could do a better job with maps and such in history books.

Even in fantasy books. Some have such crappy maps that they are unreadable. Why can I find high resolution versions on Google, within seconds, so that I can zoom and pan, while publishers just provide a crappy 400x300 "map"?

I'm not sure if the issue is that publishers don't want to bother with hi-res map scans, or if the reader software doesn't do a good job of scaling hi-res graphics.

They work fine with high-res maps. I have several books in which I have replaced crappy 400x300 pixels "maps" with Googled versions, often being 2000+ pixels on the long side.

The only downside is that the page takes a second to render and the book will be bigger.

[BillSmithBooks]

I would argue that we need an entirely different term for these multi-media enhanced thingies. They are clearly NOT books, just as "graphic novels" are NOT books...related, similar test-heavy media, sure, but NOT books..

Books are static files, sometimes with some images and pictures.

I personally really like traditional books and am perfectly happy paying for them. And I want to have access to them instead of being forced to purchase these hybrid things with added multi-media doo-dads.

Multi-media CDs (like the Encyclopedia CDs of the late 1990s) really WERE kind of neat. Web pages with all kinds of multi-media are also neat. But they are NOT books.

It's time to come up with a term for such "neither fish nor fowl" self-contained multi-media products...I suspect once they are properly categorized, there will a lot more openess and less confusion/resistance about them.

[Katsunami]

I've just bought 5 books using the Kobo Sept50 discount code. I'm glad they were very cheap that way, otherwise I would have filed a complaint. I have a lesson to offer that I've offered many times already:

STOP MAKING E-BOOKS LOOK LIKE A FRIGGIN' AFTERTHOUGHT!

Then, and only then, can one start to think about "enhancing" them.

Some of the books are actually missing maps that are not on Google (I have to scan them from my own friggin' paper version that I'm replacing, for god's sake!), and have mistakes in the table of contents, like "Chapter 5" actually taking you to chapter 3, and missing/blank parts in the TOC altogether. There isn't even an ISBN in there, nor a publication date.

Sometimes, it's not difficult for a pirated version to outdo an original. Luckily nowadays we have the tools to fix this mess. Blergh.

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

This.

Do I want an enhanced version of "Pride and Prejudice" with clips from various film versions? I most certainly do not. Nor do I want sound effects or animated graphics in novels.

But in non-fiction? I can see that there could be many useful and welcome enhancements to ebooks in terms of extra audio, video and animation features.

As a very basic sample, a diagram of a four-stroke engine that could be zoomed, rotated and would loop through the engine cycle, would be a vast improvement on a set of static diagrams of the engine in various stages of the engine cycle.

In short:
Fiction: No
Non-fiction: Yes

+1 to that
Manually moveable/resizeable 3d models or step by step animations in books teaching skills and craft. :thumbup:
Reading systems capable of handling (resize and scrolling) larger addon images (diagrams or maps) like the big maps added on extra sheets to some books - ditto.
A squealing, wiggling, trumpeting and flashing pseudo-"enhanced" multimedia app being called a book - no thanks.

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

It's somewhat funny how most of the replies to these topics feel VERY similar to the discussions regarding pBook vs. eBook.
In both cases the term "book" is defined and defended and must not be deviated from, because a "book" is only a "book" when it is exactly as a "book" should be.
Heavens forbid someone try to improve upon it, then it would immediately cease to be a book and become somthing so entirely different that it must be dismissed immediately.

First get the wheels round before even thinking of adding a mirror with plush dice. As far as books are concerned there is still enough to add (make work) to make them as good as a properly typeset pbook before trying to achieve better.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Antoinekamel

Ebooks are books and that is what they should be, period.

I agree. Plus the multimedia stuff increases the need for computer power and the drain on the battery as well. For that kind of thing you really need a tablet computer not an ereader.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

I would argue that we need an entirely different term for these multi-media enhanced thingies. They are clearly NOT books, just as "graphic novels" are NOT books...related, similar test-heavy media, sure, but NOT books..

Books are static files, sometimes with some images and pictures.
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vook

http://vook.com

Demand is so high they've become a household word, right?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by mahou

As many of you already said, I like ebooks as electronic versions of books. No enhancements. It is true that the book he talks about, 'Bruce' has a lot of references to songs or videos that you want to listen while reading, but I prefer to stop and look for it on my collection. What if in that moment you are in the bus with your Kindle without headphones or a non-audio device? And another question...when would you say you have read a book from cover to cover; when you have read, listened and watched all enhancements? What if you don't want to listen to certain part, would it be like skipping a paragraph? (I know it's not such a big problem, buy I like to say I have completely read a book from cover to cover, copyright page included.) Reading a book is about READING.

I read a copyright page once but I think I got away with it.

Helen

[Freeshadow]

Seems to become a hairy topic... Ah no wait, that'd be wookies not vooks


*sigh* damn...

[speakingtohe]

When I was 5 or 6, I got some books that had pop ups and accordion foldouts and thought it was wonderful until I realized there was nothing worth reading in the book. Even then a line per page didn't really do it for me.

I think to much enhancing and the book is sometimes going to be written around the enhancements. An author might stumble upon a cool map or video and say wow, I got to have that in my book. I know, I will send Jack to Aruba. NOt saying that is bad, just saying it might be.

Then there might be someone who has taken a lot of pictures that no-one seems to want to look at them. a book could become the literary version of the honeymoon slide show.

And the first Indie who became successful with an enhanced book would have the hopeful millions putting weird stuff everywhere in the hope of latching on to the gravy train.

Then there is the erotica market, probably the best chance of success for little vids and adverts, but the mind boggles and the stomach churns. Be careful what you wish for are my thoughts on that.

Multimedia ebooks are fine with me although I doubt I would be in the market. As long as I can still get the regular books I love.

Helen

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

"graphic novels" are NOT books...related, similar test-heavy media, sure, but NOT books..

So if they aren't comic books, what are they? Or are you saying that comic books aren't books?

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

First get the wheels round before even thinking of adding a mirror with plush dice. As far as books are concerned there is still enough to add (make work) to make them as good as a properly typeset pbook before trying to achieve better.

Few things work that way. At least not in high-tech. Taking the time to finish the rough edges means standing still-and that means you're falling behind. I'm not sure if typesetting can be automated but I'm sure somebody's trying to do it. Somebody else would be working on the enhancements so there's no reason they can't go hand-in-hand, assuming reasonable management. Are publishers reasonable?

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I think to much enhancing and the book is sometimes going to be written around the enhancements.

Ever listen to music videos? Without watching them? I think that's exactly what's happened there-more attention is paid to the show than the music.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Multimedia ebooks are fine with me although I doubt I would be in the market. As long as I can still get the regular books I love.

And I pretty much agree with you. I'm sure I'll be in the market for some multimedia ebooks but I'd be very unhappy if that was all I could get. Most books don't need it, it would be wasted on many books, and there's some books that I'd bet it would ruin. I'd also be unhappy if there were two versions of a book, regular & multimedia-unless the regular book were written first & the multimedia added later. The other way around the book would be written for the multimedia & if that's simply turned off the regular book would feel 'lacking'.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

Few things work that way. At least not in high-tech. Taking the time to finish the rough edges means standing still-and that means you're falling behind.

Nonsense. It's perfectly possible to create a perfect and good looking book as an EPUB, but it just isn't done right. Having the TOC work correctly and be complete, having nice high-res covers and maps and some good looking chapter headings and section breaks goes a long way to make an e-book a good product.

Paying money for one and then discovering it's no better than crappy pirated and OCR-ed works of 10 years ago is just disappointing. There is no reason for that anymore; not since we have EPUB (and AZW3).

I'm not sure if typesetting can be automated but I'm sure somebody's trying to do it.

It can't be really used for EPUB because it's based on fixed-layout print, but typesetting has been automated with TeX/LaTeX thirty-five years ago. Having typesetting such as LaTeX work for EPUBs is basically impossible, because EPUB is not fixed-layout. "Live typesetting" each time you turn the page would require a huge amount of processing power and speed.

[bminata]

Well, professor, what you want are called audiobooks and movies..

and there's "enhanced" ebooks too (yuck)

Originally Posted by pdurrant

They *were* software. And so quickly became unusable unless frequently updated by the publisher.

I think it's fair to say that some of those multimedia titles were books, while others were software. Some titles (e.g. Microsoft Bookshelf, Groliers Encyclopedia, etc.) were essentially the print version with multimedia enhancements. Yes, it was packaged as software. On the other hand, that software was there simply because information had to be retrieved and presented. To my knowledge, no standards existed to do so at the time. Of course other titles went much further and were only recognizable as books because they had slightly more text than a video game.

But I do agree with the unusable part. Education titles, which is what this stuff was classified as, was atrocious. Reasonably well written software from that era should work on current hardware (with a 32-bit version). A lot of those programs fall over with Windows XP because the programming was sloppy.

[queenfrostine]

I personally would welcome enhanced books, though like many I would prefer my fiction to remain un-enhanced. At least in terms of books used for educational purposes, I think multimedia additions could be wonderful.

Books are used for a variety of purposes. Some are to inform, some are to instruct, some are to preserve information, some are to entertain. And some are for a combination of those purposes. I don't understand why we'd so narrowly define what a book is just to preserve our own preferred experience. "Real" books (of the paper printed variety) don't display such prejudice and do as much they're able to to use media to enhance their experience, whether it's the inclusion of big glossy photographs, illustrations, fold out maps and diagrams, etc. When a textbook includes a CD or log-in code for something on the publisher's website, it doesn't do so to preserve the "book"-ness of the book by keeping its more dynamic content out of its pages. It does so only because of the limitations of its printed format. If a cook book ebook took advantage of its digital format by including instructional videos on, say, proper knife skills, would doing so really make it less of a book?

Originally Posted by calvin-c

So if they aren't comic books, what are they? Or are you saying that comic books aren't books?

I think that is what he's saying. I happen to disagree though. If the children's classic Where the Wild Things Are (which has fewer words per page than a graphic novel) is a book, then so too are graphic novels.


I wouldn't want to see the e-publishing industry change so that enhanced books became the norm, but I do think it's silly to turn up our noses at the idea as a whole. There are definitely books where it'd be both useful and appropriate.

[SBT]

Hmm.... p-books have utilized tech improvements along the way to enhance the reading experience - from adding chapter and verse numbers to the Bible to adding full-colour photographs to books.
As to the professor's wish: If you buy a book on an impressionist painter, you normally expect it to be illustrated with his paintings, with discussion of the works in the text. Why should not a book on a musician contain examples of his/her work when this is technologically possible?

How many of the conventions about what constitutes a book is a result of the physical limitations of paper? Foot- and endnotes an obvious example, also a maximum and minimum number of pages (The latter convention challenged directly by Amazon singles).
Textbooks tend towards the maximum possible carryable physical weight; even so my math books are full of the dreaded "and thus it is easily seen". How wonderful would it not have been to petulantly tap that sentence and see a detailed explanation of just why it is easily seen!
In short, there are plenty of p-book shortcomings annoyances that an e-book can alleviate - beginning with anything that involves flipping pages back and forth - without departing essentially from the traditional book paradigm.