ebook in KFX and old-mobi - no KF8

[odamizu]

I purchased an older (2008) Kindlebook that nevertheless has Enhanced Typesetting. When I "downloaded for transfer via USB" I got the old mobi format (not KF8), which surprised me. I figured if it had a KFX version, it would also have KF8.

Is this a regular thing where publishers update old mobi format directly to KFX and there's no KF8?

Just curious and would like to understand the publishing/formatting process here. Insights appreciated

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by odamizu

I purchased an older (2008) Kindlebook that nevertheless has Enhanced Typesetting. When I "downloaded for transfer via USB" I got the old mobi format (not KF8), which surprised me. I figured if it had a KFX version, it would also have KF8.

Is this a regular thing where publishers update old mobi format directly to KFX and there's no KF8?

Just curious and would like to understand the publishing/formatting process here. Insights appreciated

It would be Amazon doing the conversion to KFX from the old MOBI format, not the publisher.

[jhowell]

As pdurrant wrote, Amazon produces KFX for older books by re-processing them. As the software the generates KFX has improved, more older books have come to support Enhanced Typesetting, without any changes by the publisher.

The same situation can also come about in newer books if a publisher uses Amazon's Kindle Create software. That produces KFX directly and then Amazon generates MOBI, but not KF8, from that as a fallback for devices that do not support Enhanced Typesetting.

[odamizu]

Thank you, pdurrant! Thank you, jhowell!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

As pdurrant wrote, Amazon produces KFX for older books by re-processing them. As the software the generates KFX has improved, more older books have come to support Enhanced Typesetting, without any changes by the publisher.

The same situation can also come about in newer books if a publisher uses Amazon's Kindle Create software. That produces KFX directly and then Amazon generates MOBI, but not KF8, from that as a fallback for devices that do not support Enhanced Typesetting.

Any publisher that uses Kindle Create should not have anyone buy any of their books (IMHO). Mobi is meh and KFX is useless. There should be KF8 for new eBooks.

[Quoth]

Likely the Publisher uploaded a Mobi rather than a docx or epub2.
It might be a really old upload before there were many KF8 kindles. I think the Kindle Keyboard originally only did KF7 and if you use it as a target you get old mobi, even though the last FW does support KF8.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Any publisher that uses Kindle Create should not have anyone buy any of their books (IMHO). Mobi is meh and KFX is useless. There should be KF8 for new eBooks.

I tested Kindle Create at Amazon's suggestion.

We test on a range of Apps and devices. Eventually, this was before it was listed as an option, Amazon recommended we upload epub2. It worked perfectly for old mobi, KF8 and KFX downloads. Better than either the SAME docx as used by Calibre to make the epub2 (with zero editing in Calibre) or the Kindle Create.

Kindle Create IMO is for the casual self-publisher that uses a wordprocessor like a typewriter.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I tested Kindle Create at Amazon's suggestion.

We test on a range of Apps and devices. Eventually, this was before it was listed as an option, Amazon recommended we upload epub2. It worked perfectly for old mobi, KF8 and KFX downloads. Better than either the SAME docx as used by Calibre to make the epub2 (with zero editing in Calibre) or the Kindle Create.

Kindle Create IMO is for the casual self-publisher that uses a wordprocessor like a typewriter.

Is Kindle Create as bad as I think it is?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is Kindle Create as bad as I think it is?

I don't know how bad you think it is. Wordpad was better at paper than Kindle Create at ebooks.

It's free. You can install it on your Win10 and review

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Likely the Publisher uploaded a Mobi rather than a docx or epub2.
It might be a really old upload before there were many KF8 kindles. I think the Kindle Keyboard originally only did KF7 and if you use it as a target you get old mobi, even though the last FW does support KF8.

From 2008? Hell, that's effectively before KF7. I'm wondering if that's a typo.....

Hitch

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Hitch

From 2008? Hell, that's effectively before KF7. I'm wondering if that's a typo.....

Hitch

Where do you get a 2008 from? The last FW for a Kindle Keyboard is 3.4.3
I replaced battery cells in two Kindle Keyboards, that were both dated 2010 in the last few months, so those Kindle Keyboards (Model B008) are from 2010 or later.

The DXG is actually newer and a B009, but has older last FW as its innards are mostly the DX, not enough RAM for for fancy stuff? It's Version 2.5.8 FW.

I downloaded updates from here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custo...MQC26VQQMM8XSW

The DXG B009, Keyboard B008 and PW3 have all been updated several times since new.

My DXG was a re-release several years ago on special offer and was a waste of money for PDFs as it was too slow and too low resolution. The PW3 does them better if you have reading glasses! The DXG is only used to test and does KF7 less well than the older Keyboard 6" model as it has more built in fonts.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Hitch

From 2008? Hell, that's effectively before KF7. I'm wondering if that's a typo.....

Amazon lists the pub date of this Kindlebook as March 25, 2008 (under Product details), however that may be the date the hardcover was published and not reflect when the Kindlebook was released. In any case, it's an older book, not a recent release

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Where do you get a 2008 from?

I read. It's pesky! (See Odamizu's original post, snookums!).

The last FW for a Kindle Keyboard is 3.4.3
I replaced battery cells in two Kindle Keyboards, that were both dated 2010 in the last few months, so those Kindle Keyboards (Model B008) are from 2010 or later.

The DXG is actually newer and a B009, but has older last FW as its innards are mostly the DX, not enough RAM for for fancy stuff? It's Version 2.5.8 FW.

Okay, and remind me, what are we arguing about or...whut? I'm pretty sure I'm being corrected here, but I'm not sure what I'm being corrected about....

I downloaded updates from here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custo...MQC26VQQMM8XSW

The DXG B009, Keyboard B008 and PW3 have all been updated several times since new.

My DXG was a re-release several years ago on special offer and was a waste of money for PDFs as it was too slow and too low resolution. The PW3 does them better if you have reading glasses! The DXG is only used to test and does KF7 less well than the older Keyboard 6" model as it has more built in fonts.

Right...I think that my wise-assery here has evoked something that I didn't mean to evoke. All I was saying ("...is give peace a chance..") is that to the best of my recollection, the first Kindle "publishing" was 2009, oui? Isn't that right? Long ere KF8?

Hitch

[Notjohn]

>the first Kindle "publishing" was 2009

I was publishing on the Digital Text Platform in November 2007. I was doing mobis (through Mobipocket) at the same time, with the result that for a while there I had two versions of several books on the Amazon store.

But perhaps I'm missing something related to the scare quotes? Along with giving peace a chance, all I'm saying is that a) I was publishing and b) it was for the Kindle.

love, NJ

[Quoth]

I was confused, because I thought you were responding to something I wrote.

I can't see how a 2008 model can do Enhanced Typesetting. Certainly it would have been 2007 design and the Amazon eBook publishing did start in late 2007, but only for the USA.

I suspect the 2010 Kindle Keyboard didn't get KF8 till later? Amazon calls it 3rd Generation.
The first Kindle was in late 2007 and only sold officially in the USA. It certainly depended on the Mobi stuff Amazon bought in. They bought (2005?) and later killed Mobipocket which started off as an app for the Palm PDA, then was on Windows CE and Symbian as well as the desktop. The Wikipedia article on Mobipocket conflicts with my memory and foolishly treats azw as merely a flavour of mobi. Perhaps the first version was, but current azw is KF8, maybe the 3rd version and otherwise you get .mobi or KFX (a set of files). I've no idea when KF8 came out which is sort of an Amazon version of epub2.

I can't see how a 2008 Kindle can have KFX, that would be the 2007 model. A 2010 3rd gen Kindle can't do KFX, and while really the so called "Enhanced Typesetting" is nothing to do with KFX because KF8 model could do it if Amazon updated the firmware slightly, in 2008 the 2nd Kindle didn't exist. There was only the original Kindle till early 2009.
The LAST FW for the original Kindle was 1.2.1. It's less able than 2.5.8, which is on the 2009 models and the DXG which came after the 2010 Kindle Keyboard.
The 2010 models and later, apart from the DXG, have more ram so got the Publisher Font selection and ability to do azw3 / KF8, but not the so called Enhanced Typesetting.

Sorry for confusing you, Hitch. Hopefully this clarifies it for other readers here.
From the start in 2008 is original Gen 1 Kindle (i.e. Made prior to February 2009) and I can't believe that it's any better at FW 1.2.1 than my DXG at FW 2.5.8, which while being made AFTER the Kindle Keyboard 2010, the innards is similar to the 2009 models which also use 2.5.8. They certainly can't do publisher Fonts, KF8 or Enhanced Typesetting, and they probably can't due to lack of RAM.

The 1st and 2nd Kindles (late 2007 to 2008) and (2009) did have keyboards, but it's the 3rd Generation one between the DX and the DXG that is called a Kindle Keyboard. Any 2008 model would have only black, 2 levels of grey and nearly white. Though it has an SD slot.

The Gen1 and Gen2 kindles don't read modern AZW, I suspect only azw1? Most AZW now is AZW3/KF8. The original AZW was just mobi with different DRM?

A Paperwhite 3 will certainly manage KFX and Enhanced Typesetting. Not sure what the earliest model would be. Was there KFX or Enhanced Typesetting before 2014? I think what Amazon calls 7th Generation was 2014, I think a new Basic and Voyage came out then, with the PW3 being in 2015, and regarded as 7th Gen.