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Old 09-03-2019, 12:04 AM   #1
GrannyGrump
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Need sleuth-hounds help for death-dates

I have several books I want to upload, but need to check for copyright status.

First, author "Maggie Browne", pseudonym of Margaret Hamer Andrewes. She has two illustrated by Arthur Rackham that I want to upload.

She apparently started publishing circa 1884. Her last listed book is reported as 1910, but the Rackham illustrations are annotated 1900/1901, so I think there may have been a delay in publication.

Even the wonderful site "General Catalog of Old Books and Authors" has no biography dates for her:
http://www.authorandbookinfo.com/ngcoba/ha2.htm

-------
Then, some artists who illustrated for John Kendrick Bangs ---
J. T. Richards and "G W A" --- "Half-hours with Jimmieboy"
https://archive.org/details/halfhour...ngrich/page/n8
.
and "F B S" --- "Mantel-Piece Minstrels"
https://archive.org/details/mantelpi...nggoog/page/n6
-------

If anyone can provide information about any of these folks, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for ANY help.
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:34 PM   #2
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Well, I do believe I will have to go with the "anonymous/pseudonymous" published more than 70 years ago, and push ahead.

I am shocked that the Andrewes lady could have printed so many titles, and there is no data for her anywhere.

Ta!
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrannyGrump View Post
I have several books I want to upload, but need to check for copyright status.
-------
and "F B S" --- "Mantel-Piece Minstrels"
https://archive.org/details/mantelpi...nggoog/page/n6
-------

If anyone can provide information about any of these folks, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for ANY help.
F. B. S. is probably Francis Berkeley Smith (1868-1931), according to this:

https://www.williamreesecompany.com/...-other-stories

though I can't find any other art by him to compare.

The other two I can't solve :0(

Regards,

Kim
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:18 AM   #4
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Hey, Kim --- thank you!

I did browse through some of the vintage book sellers, but never got lucky.
I am ready to trade in my search skills for a cheap balloon, and then break the balloon.
I am obviously doing something wrong.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrannyGrump View Post
I am obviously doing something wrong.
Not necessarily, but here are some of my "secrets"

I usually start with a very precise searchphrase, and then broaden it. Then, if/when I hit something useful, I narrow it again from there - or just go through the first couple of pages.

Also, Google yield somewhat different results depending on location - e.g. I get different results from google.com and google.dk.

When it's about books and authors, searching in Google Books can get you something which the ordinary Google-search doesn't find.

And finally, I get different search-results from "pretending" I am a US-citizen (using a VPN) instead of my ordinary nationality.

It's strange, but I think it has something to do with Google's algoritms trying to predict what I'm looking for (which sometimes is a bl...y nuisance!)

Besides Google, some of the genealogy search sites like FamilySearch and MyHeritage can sometimes yield a clue or two.

For the rest, it's mostly what the Germans call "fingerspitz-gefühl"

Regards,

Kim
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:35 AM   #6
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Do a search on "filter bubble"

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/12/06/st...er-bubble-too/

is interesting.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:14 AM   #7
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Hi guys --- thank you very much for the tips.

Maybe I will be able to refine my skills.
I do indeed think that some of my problem is location --- I get lots of hits on Japanese sites, even though I specify using English version of Google. I use DuckDuckGo a lot, but that doesn't seem to give very different results.

Anyway, I will keep chewing away at it, and see if I can improve.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:44 PM   #8
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Your Maggie Brown is difficult - the form of her name Margaret (Hamer) Andrewes is more American than U.K and would indicate that she was born Margaret Hamer and married a Mr Andrewes. That though may not indicate a U.S origin.

Working on the idea that her first book was published ~1884 I estimated that she would have been born sometime before 1864. So I checked for British births prior to that date. One thing became clear - the Hamer name seemed to be very much a Lancashire thing. That would be lucky as Lancashire probably has one of the most extensive online set of BMD records. Most Margaret Hamers born around this time had a second name and there was nothing to show which was really of interest.

Looking at possible marriages of a Margaret Hamer to an Andrews I came up a 1896 marriage between a Margaret Hamer and either a Walter Isaac Vincent or a Herbert Edward Andrewes. The amiguity in the marraige partner is due to the algorithm used to match possible partners - there will be four with the same reference, two male and two female.

So I then did a forward check in the censuses for Herbert Edward Andrewes and in 1911 he is shown living in Highgate, London, a stockbroker. His wife is Margaret Andrewes born around 1865 in Leeds.

I confirmed that with the 1901 census - in that one the second "e" was missing from the Andrewes name.

Armed with Margaret's age/Date of Birth) and Place of Birth I was able to locate her pre-marriage in 1891. At that point she was living with her parents at St Pancras - John Hamer, a publisher from Yorkshire and his wife Sarah S Hamer, an Authoress from Yorkshire. Margaret is described as an Authoress so we are clearly onto the right person.

Now to her death - armed with her date of birth a check on Margaret Andrewes, born ~1865 and died in the London area returned only one possible : Margaret Andrewes born 1865 died Jan/Feb/Mar 1937 at Edmonton Middlesex.

I'm confident that here we have the death of your Maggie Brown.

She seems to have come from a successful family - she had one brother who was a Physician with a degree from Cambridge and another who was an Editor. In 1891 the family had two domestic servants.

I Hope this gives you the evidence you need for her date of death.

BobC

P.S. Look at the Wikipedia entry for Sarah Sharp Hamer who wrote as Phyllis Browne

Last edited by BobC; 10-07-2019 at 02:19 PM. Reason: to add the P.S.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:04 PM   #9
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Wowzer, BobC, that was some mighty sleuthing!
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:47 AM   #10
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@BobC -- I am stunned. boggled! Flabbergasted!!!
I can't believe the labyrinth you traveled to find that information.

Thank you so much,
Have you ever considered doing this sort of thing as a paid service? You clearly have a talent!

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Old 10-08-2019, 06:23 AM   #11
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@GrannyGrump

Family History research is one of my hobbies - I treat it like a jigsaw puzzle and as an intellectual exercise to keep the brain working. As a result I have paid access to some of the necessary database services.

I was lucky here with the spelling of the name Andrewes which is relatively uncommon.

It's interesting to see that all the authors in the family used the Browne surname for their published works. Margaret would have been only 19 when her first work was published in 1884. It must have been easier to get published at that age with a father who was a publisher and a mother an established author.

A minor point - Margaret was born in Q2 of 1864 not 1865 - this is what comes from using age at census rather than going back and checking.

As far as I can see Margaret stopped showing an occupation on censuses after she had married, possibly because it was not thought seemly for a wife of a stockbroker to be earning money. This may also be the reason her books stopped around 1910 though that may also have been the fact that she was no longer in a literary environment.

She died on 11 January 1936 at 8 North Grove, Highgate, London. Probate shows her effects were worth £7,250 6s 8d.

When her husband died in 1950 he was worth £41,106 15s 8d
--------------------

Pleased to be able to help and to look at the lives of folk other than weavers, council roadmen, nightsoil workers etc.

Without a bit more info about your other artists I doubt if I would have a decent starting point to research them.

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Old 10-15-2019, 12:52 PM   #12
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A few more book related items about "Maggie Brown" that have surfaced.

Her father, John Hamer, a Yorkshireman, who at one time owned a bookselling business in Leeds, joined the staff of Cassell's in the 'sixties. He was publishing manager from 1867 till 1900.

His son,Sam Hield Hamer also became an editor at Cassells; he is credited with "discovering" Arthur Rackham as an illustrator. He wrote under the name of Sam Browne.

Her mother Sarah Sharp Heaton was also an author of children's books using the name Phyllis (or Phiillis) Browne and Sarah's father John Heaton was another Yorkshireman who had been a bookseller in Leeds.

Though not book-related also of note is Margaret's oldest brother William Heaton Hamer a medical man who was Medical Officer of Health for London and was Knighted for his work in 1923.

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Old 10-15-2019, 10:39 PM   #13
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Hey BobC, you have accumulated enough information to write a Wikipedia article!
(have you considered doing that?)

Considering you started with only a name and a partial bibliography, this is astounding!
Thanks so very much for the information.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:59 PM   #14
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I hadn't considered it but have now set up an account and will see about starting an entry for Maggie once I am allowed to do so on Wikipedia.

I have sufficient data but I also need to identify the entries that I need to link to and other "housekeeping".

Thanks for the idea.

To answer you previous question about a paid service - definitely not. An old adage is that if you get paid for your hobby you no longer have a hobby, just a job. This concept was explained to me many years ago by a friend whose hobby was photography. He started doing Wedding Photos and made quite a good income from it. He said he had lost the enthusiasm that being able to chose what pictures he wanted to take and when gave him.

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Old 10-18-2019, 04:59 AM   #15
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Well, I tried - I put together an article for Wikipedia, however it has been rejected. It appears that the subject (Maggie Browne) does not have sufficient "notability". Unless I can find articles or newspaper cuttings that already discuss her or speak about her, other than in a "passing" fashion she would not qualify for an article.

If anyone knows of sources of such information (I've searched but can't find any that meet Wikipedia's criteria) let me know and I'll see if I can adapt the article.

I'll probably just do a section for the Hamer and Andrewes families and load them on my own family history based website.

In the meantime I have passed on her dates of birth and death to the owner of the "General Catalog of Old Books and Authors" site that was mentioned earlier. He says "I've added it to my master database already, but it will be a while before it makes its way to the online webpages, as I've currently got a lot on."

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