mobi without ePub ...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sella174

Thanks, Dale. I did look at that before starting the thread, but the date was too ancient for me.

Barebones minimum for mobi using KindleGen is actually just:

1. content.opf
2. toc.ncx
3. toc.html
4. cover.jpg
5. text.html

It’s interesting to watch the output of KindleGen once one starts adding stuff.

In plain English, ePub.

[Sella174]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's just easier to learn to make ePub and convert from that as the source.

There’s a few differences, so it’s better to learn how to do a mobi.

[Sella174]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In plain English, ePub.

Them’s just the files; I didn’t discuss the internals.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sella174

There’s a few differences, so it’s better to learn how to do a mobi.

Trust me, that's the harder way to do it. There are no tools to help you make a Mobi. The code from a Mobi has to be done without CSS and it's going to be hell to put every style in the HTML code.

There are much more than a few differences. Plus there is the Calibre editor or Sigil to help you make ePub.

[Sella174]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There are no tools to help you make a Mobi.

A text editor and KindleGen sure work fine for me.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The code from a Mobi has to be done without CSS and it's going to be hell to put every style in the HTML code.

Huh? I don't want to decompile FROM a mobi. I already have the source files. I just compile it TO a mobi.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There are much more than a few differences.

Exactly, so double-huh?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sella174

A text editor and KindleGen sure work fine for me.

The long way round for something that should be easy.

Huh? I don't want to decompile FROM a mobi. I already have the source files. I just compile it TO a mobi.

Nobody said anything about decompiling anything.

Exactly, so double-huh?

The differences are what make ePub EASIER to create. Plus the programs available to help you create ePub make it even easier. So your way of making Mobi is actually more COMPLICATED.

[Sella174]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The code from a Mobi has to be done without CSS and it's going to be hell to put every style in the HTML code.

So why then can I use external stylesheets (e.g. “text.css”) for each of the HTML files that are compiled by KindleGen into the mobi and are subsequently applied by the e-reader?

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There are much more than a few differences. Plus there is the Calibre editor or Sigil to help you make ePub.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The differences are what make ePub EASIER to create. Plus the programs available to help you create ePub make it even easier. So your way of making Mobi is actually more COMPLICATED.

Sigil, with all due respect to the programmers thereof, produces ePub files and as such does not add the “spices” to the files that KindleGen favours. If it did, then the ePub wouldn’t validate.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sella174

So why then can I use external stylesheets (e.g. “text.css”) for each of the HTML files that are compiled by KindleGen into the mobi and are subsequently applied by the e-reader?

You can do that with Sigil or Calibre Editor and you can see what the result of the CSS code is very easily. Your way you create the CSS, edit the HTML, run Kindlegen, see what you get and what you don't realize is you may very well NOT be seeing the Mobi. You may be seeing the KF8.

Sigil, with all due respect to the programmers thereof, produces ePub files and as such does not add the “spices” to the files that KindleGen favours. If it did, then the ePub wouldn’t validate.

That's just so wrong. ePub validates and then converts to Mobi no problem. What you get is how you made the ePub. When you use Kindlegen to make your Mobi, what you are getting is a dual-format eBook that contains both Mobi & KF8. If you use a Kindle that displays KF8, you see the KF8. If you use a Kindle that doesn't display KF8, you get Mobi. So there's a good chance you are not seeing Mobi. If you are using KindleforPC to look at your eBook, then you are just seeing KF8.

How are you selling your eBook? Is it through Amazon?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Sella174

A text editor and KindleGen sure work fine for me.


Huh? I don't want to decompile FROM a mobi. I already have the source files. I just compile it TO a mobi.


Exactly, so double-huh?

URGH. Wolfie is being very pedantic. HOWEVER, that being said, what he's said--although narrow--is correct.

He's taking you literally in his own, personal-to-him-only specific definition of "MOBI." He is deliberately construing you to mean that you are building a KF7-style ONLY mobi. (Wolfie rather notoriously persists on insisting that only KF7 "mobis" are MOBI, and that the newer, dual-style MOBI is "KF8" not MOBI. Thus, his comments to you.)

If that were true--which it would be, if you used MOBIPocket, CSS wouldn't work. The KF7 mobis didn't use CSS--at all. Not one smidgen. Everything had to be on the HTML tags, not in CSS.

Those of us who build MOBIs--the 2017 kind, not the 2009 kind--use media-queries to address this issue in KF7 MOBI format, and of course, use the CSS to address the KF8 MOBI format--both of which are included in the MOBI output file from KG/KPreviewer.

Does that clarify for you?

@Wolfie: Give it a rest, man. Nobody else on the damned PLANET uses your definition of "mobi" as =KF7. Not even me, and you know that I am very precise in that stuff. You know damned well you are saying this to confuse her just to try to win the argument. Stop

Hitch

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Sella174

So why then can I use external stylesheets (e.g. “text.css”) for each of the HTML files that are compiled by KindleGen into the mobi and are subsequently applied by the e-reader?

See my previous. You don't, actually.

Sigil, with all due respect to the programmers thereof, produces ePub files and as such does not add the “spices” to the files that KindleGen favours. If it did, then the ePub wouldn’t validate.

I won't lie--I have no idea what is it you are talking about, vis-a-vis "spices?"

Hitch

[JSWolf]

The problem is that Amazon is using .mobi as the file extension for Kindlegen output. That means when someone says Mobi, you don't always know if they mean kindlegen output or Mobi format. And then there is also .azw which does not tell us what format that is.

Amazon loves causing confusion.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that Amazon is using .mobi as the file extension for Kindlegen output. That means when someone says Mobi, you don't always know if they mean kindlegen output or Mobi format. And then there is also .azw which does not tell us what format that is.

Amazon loves causing confusion.

Wolfie:

My sweet curmudgeon, with all due respect, nobody has used MOBI=KF7 in what, 5 years? You're the last one to mean that. Yes, sure, it's imprecise language, and I hate that, too, but the Calibre folks says MOBI and AZW3, which is KF7 and KF8; but the rest of us all say MOBI to mean, dual-MOBI unless otherwise QUALIFIED as KF7 or 8. Ya know?

Hitch

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by Sella174

Sigil, with all due respect to the programmers thereof, produces ePub files and as such does not add the “spices” to the files that KindleGen favours. If it did, then the ePub wouldn’t validate.

Can you give some specific examples of these mysterious “spices”? AFAIK, the only item that isn't strictly required for valid epub2 books is the cover metadata entry. For example:

<meta content="cover.jpg" name="cover" />

However, this item won't invalidate an epub2 book.

Unless you create Kindle dictionaries or KF8 fixed layout books, you shouldn't have to add any elements that would invalidate epub2 books.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hitch

In your professional opinion, giving what the OP is doing and what the OP wants to achieve, what is the easiest way to achieve this?

[Sella174]

Hitch, I did notice with Kindle Previewer that some “devices” applied some of the styles, whilst others did not. Since KindleGen produces both KF8 and mobi “format” wrapped inside a single container called mobi, it seem that the program figures out which from what and in this case that you and JSWolf state, merges the external stylesheet with the HTML. Whereas ePub is basically zipped HTML and CSS files, I get the distinct impression that (mobi/KF8) is a compiled end-product - similar to a C source file and the resultant EXE after compilation.