Chapter formatting

[theducks]

I agree: Boring space is wasted space.
My fixes to overly wasted space (5-6" 3:4 screen)

basic text, Un-decorated : 25% max
add a chapter title line to the chapter numbering : 33%
Artistic Chapter heads Up to 100%

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I did download one of these eBook from the library and there are some good and bad points to it. The chapter header is definitely different. On my laptop with Calibre's Viewer, there is some space left at the bottom of the screen. On my iPhone, there's not enough room at the bottom of the screen. So in this case, it's best to do it the way it's done. It does work. The font used for the chapter titles works. But, the font used for the body text doesn't work. It's just way too light. It's Times New Roman and that is a terrible font to embed. That is a big fail.

Well. I gotta admit, I've never seen anyone embed TNR before, and I didn't notice it. I read those on my Voyage--and they seemed fine. FWIW.

Some space maybe, but not some silly amount of space. ANd don't do it with a % as that changes depending on what device is being used. The space needs to be consistent. So use em and not % and don't go more then 2em. Don't use 1/2 the screen for the chapter header.

Again, that depends on the header.

What amount of space around the chapter header do you prefer?

I don't. I'm not being evasive. I see many, many different headings and there's nothing standard about it. I'm reading a supernatural series right now (that I suspect is really YA or new adult or the like, 20-something protags), but it's SO damn bland that it's interfering with my ability to enjoy it. Block-style paragraphs; and the chapter heads have NO space around them. I mean...they're barely noticeable. Kind of a bummer. I could have had a LOT of fun with that book! (Demon hunters, supes, vamps, werewolves...lions and tigers and bears, oh my!). The formatting, I mean. We had a nice gab about fonts. ;-)

Yes, be creative. Don't be boring. A lot of blank space in the chapter header is boring. Cthulhu Casebooks [of Sherlock Holmes] chapter headers works because they are creative in a good way. But to have "[too much space]Chapter 1[too much space]start of the chapter text" is boring and for me, it doesn't work. Either be creative or don't have so much excess space.

I actually reached out to the book designer on that (The casebooks) and congratulated her, in fact. Nicely done.

For example, with the amount of space wasted in chapter headers in a Jame Patterson book, you can get an extra screen of text then you would if a reasonable amount of space for the chapter header was used. Because there are over 100 chapters, you can get way too many extra screens.

I have to admit, I haven't tried one. I'll have to take a look. But I have to say--given that we're talking about an infinitesimal about of extra space, Jon--who truly CARES about "extra screens?" It's not like we have to click them all at once, is it? We click them as we go along. Nobody's going to notice that you've added 100 extra clicks to a book, with them spread out throughout. They're just not. If the book is a good read, and it's beautiful...I genuinely don't think anyone will notice Jon. Maybe you--but then, you're not your average bear, now, are you?

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well. I gotta admit, I've never seen anyone embed TNR before, and I didn't notice it. I read those on my Voyage--and they seemed fine. FWIW.

I actually reached out to the book designer on that (The casebooks) and congratulated her, in fact. Nicely done.

As for TNR as an embedded font, I have not tried the eBook on my H2O. But I have tried it on my iPhone an I find it's too light. It undoes all the other good things that were done in the book. It spoils the book. On your Voyage, do you have Publisher fonts turned on? If not, you won't be seeing TNR.

Since you've been in contact, can you do so again and suggest TNR be removed? I don't see any reason for an embedded font for the main text. Sure, put in a font family of serif so on a Kindle a serif font will be used, but TNR should go. It makes a well designed eBook into a poorly designed eBook.

The choice of fonts to embed can be the difference between a well made eBook and a poorly made eBook. The worst eBook I've ever seen in terms of embedded fonts is The Martian by Andy Weir. The publisher used Free Sans, Free Serif, and Free Mono. Three really awful fonts. If I wasn't able to edit the eBook to deal with these fonts, I would have found the eBook unreadable.

One other thing I find I really dislike is when the chapter header is made to link back to the internal ToC. It doesn't look nice at all. I find there to be no need to do this as there is a ToC that's easily accessible without having to move to a different place in the eBook.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One other thing I find I really dislike is when the chapter header is made to link back to the internal ToC. It doesn't look nice at all. I find there to be no need to do this as there is a ToC that's easily accessible without having to move to a different place in the eBook.

Yeah, this one is very odd. Any idea on why the hell they do this?

Latest few books I purchased had this, and it had me scratching my head.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Yeah, this one is very odd. Any idea on why the hell they do this?

Latest few books I purchased had this, and it had me scratching my head.

My guess is that whoever is doing it hasn't a clue.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Yeah, this one is very odd. Any idea on why the hell they do this?

Latest few books I purchased had this, and it had me scratching my head.

It's old school--didn't Smashwords used to tell people to do that? In their Word files, way-back-when? Pre NCXes?

Hitch

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Yeah, this one is very odd. Any idea on why the hell they do this?

Latest few books I purchased had this, and it had me scratching my head.

Because the started with doing online Browser (HTML) version. Remember Webscriptions? One of their versions was HTML fo those folk who read on their CRT

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

It's old school--didn't Smashwords used to tell people to do that? In their Word files, way-back-when? Pre NCXes?

The Expanse books have it (at least all the way up to Book 6, I haven't purchased newer ones yet).

Looking in the metadata, it looks like the EPUBs were created 2015-2017. Published by Orbit / Hachette Book Group.

The code, it doesn't look like it's straight from InDesign, but it's relatively clean/minimal code (besides the ol' blank <span> encompassing every paragraph).

Maybe they have some old custom converter tool they created years ago, and it's still chugging away with "old ways" of doing things.

Side Note: And good thing I went digging into the code, I see a bug in Book 6 where they accidentally set lang + xml:lang set as French. I'll have to download the latest copy from Kobo and see if they fixed it since I downloaded. If not, I'll have to report it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

The Expanse books have it (at least all the way up to Book 6, I haven't purchased newer ones yet).

Looking in the metadata, it looks like the EPUBs were created 2015-2017. Published by Orbit / Hachette Book Group.

The code, it doesn't look like it's straight from InDesign, but it's relatively clean/minimal code (besides the ol' blank <span> encompassing every paragraph).

Maybe they have some old custom converter tool they created years ago, and it's still chugging away with "old ways" of doing things.

Side Note: And good thing I went digging into the code, I see a bug in Book 6 where they accidentally set lang + xml:lang set as French. I'll have to download the latest copy from Kobo and see if they fixed it since I downloaded. If not, I'll have to report it.

I downloaded the latest version of Babylon's Ashes from Overdrive. The spans are still there and the language is still marked as French.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by graycyn

If you use that argument, then the question is, why are many big publishers doing things that you say don't work? Like emulating print style chapter headers.

They are in the business of selling and if the buyers hate the formatting, they have recourse via Amazon to both complain AND return the ebook. Less recourse via other vendors, but in the U.S., Amazon has most of the market. Any reputable publisher IS going to pay attention if large percentages of their ebook sales are returned.

But if that isn't happening, the possibility remains that many people LIKE what the publishers are doing. Or at least aren't finding it objectionable enough to act on.

What real harm occurs when a publisher allows more chapter heading space?









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Well, I think publishers want to use the same source as the hardcopy book as much as possible. It makes things much easier for them. I also believe most people won't return a slam a book based on this difference. The content is still why they buy a book.

Dale

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by Hitch

It's old school--didn't Smashwords used to tell people to do that? In their Word files, way-back-when? Pre NCXes?



Hitch

I remember seeing chapter head linkbacks a lot in books when I first started reading. And I did it in my first efforts making ebooks back when. But I stopped because it DID look ugly, especially when I switched to using Sony instead of Nook.

Jon, if you are still reading, we are mostly on the same page. The book that I was making that worried you was for ME only. I will probably not live to see it public domain.

My dad's old books that I hope to do for the MR library DON'T have a lot of chapter heading space. We are talking 1/4 to 1/3 of the screen max. And it's a very traditional centered look. So it's hardly worth anyone getting upset over.

I may need to ask for help later with interior stuff. Some chapters have tables and other possibly tricky bits.

My first plan is just getting the whole series scanned. My document scanner does not like the old thick and somewhat fragile paper, so I have to feed 'em a page at a time, ugh!





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