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Old 03-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #1456
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Sure. But in that case, you aren't so much 'substituting' as filling in the missing liquid. In that case, just add that beef stock you mentioned.



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Ah, got it. Thanks, Stitchawl.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:01 AM   #1457
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I'm not quite clear here, even when you cook the alcohol off, you have an issue? how are you with grape juice?
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:59 PM   #1458
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Let wine sit long enough and it'll become vinegar. Does vinegar count as alcohol for your purposes?
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:14 PM   #1459
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I'm not quite clear here, even when you cook the alcohol off, you have an issue? how are you with grape juice?
Yes. The problem is getting it to the cooked off stage, KK. I can handle grape juice, but I think it's too sweet for this particular purpose.

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Let wine sit long enough and it'll become vinegar. Does vinegar count as alcohol for your purposes?
Probably. If not for me, for Chris. One of my issues with alcohol is that I have an extremely oversensitive nose - and even a light whiff makes me hurl. Chris has the same visceral reaction to vinegar.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:00 PM   #1460
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Yes. The problem is getting it to the cooked off stage, KK. I can handle grape juice, but I think it's too sweet for this particular purpose.



Probably. If not for me, for Chris. One of my issues with alcohol is that I have an extremely oversensitive nose - and even a light whiff makes me hurl. Chris has the same visceral reaction to vinegar.
all it needs is to come to a boil. stick it in a coffee cup, put it in the microwave, give it two minutes, voila! no more alkihaul!
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:03 PM   #1461
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Shel, if you can use the wine with the alcohol cooked off, then the solution is easy peasy!

Take half a bottle of wine and put it in a saucepan over a low flame and let it simmer at a low boil for about 15-20 minutes. All the alcohol will cook off completely. Then store the liquid for later use by freezing it into ice cubes, only defrosting as much as you need for the particular dish. Alcohol doesn't freeze until a much lower temperature than water, so simply being able to make the ice cubes in your fridge will prove to you that there is none left.


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Old 03-24-2012, 08:05 PM   #1462
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Originally Posted by Stitchawl View Post
Shel, if you can use the wine with the alcohol cooked off, then the solution is easy peasy!

Take half a bottle of wine and put it in a saucepan over a low flame and let it simmer at a low boil for about 15-20 minutes. All the alcohol will cook off completely. Then store the liquid for later use by freezing it into ice cubes, only defrosting as much as you need for the particular dish. Alcohol doesn't freeze until a much lower temperature than water, so simply being able to make the ice cubes in your fridge will prove to you that there is none left.


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actually, have Chris do all of the above if she has such a violent reaction
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:55 AM   #1463
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It goes against conventional wisdom but the alcohol doesn't completely evaporate during cooking.

http://www.ochef.com/165.htm
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:38 AM   #1464
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It goes against conventional wisdom but the alcohol doesn't completely evaporate during cooking.

http://www.ochef.com/165.htm
Thanks for the link, but I'm not sure that I agree with their findings. At one point, the FDA stated that Vitamin A was not needed by the human body, and had the proofs to support their claim. We now realize that they were quite wrong, and they now tell us their figures for RDA is what we should follow.

Based on the times and results in that test, it appears that alcohol would last longer than plain water heated for the same period of time, yet goes on to say that it boils off at 78c when water boils off at 100c, significantly earlier than water. Bring the liquid to a boil but the alcohol doesn't evaporate, even with a lower boiling point? Something is not right! The alcohol would begin to boil/evaporate out before the liquid even reach 100c.

Try it yourself. Take a dish with 'pure' alcohol and light it. It will burn until there is nothing left in the dish, although slowly as only the surface layer is getting hot enough to burn and evaporate. Add some control to the burn and you have an alcohol stove, the controls limiting the amount of alcohol coming in contact with the flame, heating it to its boiling point. Very different from having a heat source below a pan and the surrounding liquid at 100c. A half cup of alcohol will burn away quickly when put over the fire on a stove. After an hour, there will NOT be 25% of it left in the pan as the chart suggests. The pan will be empty.



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Last edited by Stitchawl; 03-25-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:06 AM   #1465
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It goes against conventional wisdom but the alcohol doesn't completely evaporate during cooking.

http://www.ochef.com/165.htm
As a chemist, I've been amused by chefs on television who seem to think that adding wine or liquor to a heated pot of food some how instantly and completely evaporates the alcohol or that as soon as the flame is out from a flambé there is no alcohol left. I can assure them that that's wrong. When you heat water to 100 C does the pan instantly become empty? No, it can take a very long time to reduce the volume of water in the pan significantly. And it depends on the volume in the pan and the surface area exposed to air. And if it's a sauce, it depends on the viscosity of the liquid, on your stirring or not, and the attraction of the other molecules to water. It's not rocket science but it is a trivial thing to measure alcohol in a liquid mixture. So believe measurements and not the pretty face on television who assures you that the alcohol is gone. I'm pretty sure she's never measured it.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:37 PM   #1466
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actually, have Chris do all of the above if she has such a violent reaction
Yeah, I'd have to vacate the premises while that was being done. Not worth it to me, so I just find substitutes. I did find a bolognese recipe that did not have wine, but turned out delectable, so I'm happy. There are very few dishes I care enough about being able to make/eat that wine is an integral ingredient, so I usually just look for what I can have and don't worry about what I can't.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:21 PM   #1467
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This is my 'find' of the year. Five minutes to make, easy ingredients to find, and the flavor is out of this world. I usually can not STAND anchovies, but in this recipe the strong flavor of the Kalamata olives seems to transform the fishy taste into something else entirely. I used anchovy paste when I made this as opening a tin of them would have resulted in a lot of waste.

Tepenade

Ingredients

10 Kalamata olives - pitted (buy them WITH pits for flavor!)
20-30 black olives - pitted " " " " "
2 anchovy fillets, rinsed
1 clove garlic, minced
2 tablespoons capers
2 to 3 fresh basil leaves
1 tablespoon freshly squeezed lemon juice
3 tablespoons olive oil - I used the oil that the Kalamata olives came in

Put all together into a food processor and pulse into a course paste, scraping down the sides to insure consistency.
Serve as a spread for baguettes, toasted French bread, or crackers.



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Old 05-24-2012, 08:26 AM   #1468
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Tried a new cultural mix tonight. I had made guacamole as part of last night's dinner and had half a bowl left over...
Here's the Guac:
3 avacados
3-5 cloves of garlic
splash of lime juice
splash of olive oil
1 scant TBS of cumin
salt and pepper
hefty dash of Cayenne pepper
1/3 onion minced fine
4-5 scallions chopped into rounds
3-4 tomatoes, seeded and chopped into 1/4" squares

Mix everything except the onions and scallions and tomatoes, mashing the avocado into a rough puree, then add the rest and mix well. Chill and serve later. 10-15 minutes to make...

But tonight, being lazy, I just made a pot of Fusilli pasta (the curly short stuff) and when it was done, dumped in the leftover guacamole and mixed it in...
Italian and Mexican, and it worked really, really nicely! I mean well enough to plan this as a regular meal for the future!


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Old 05-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #1469
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OK. bookmarking this thread. Can't wait to try the Na'an with spelt flour and honey. will let you know how I make out
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #1470
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tried the guac! was delish with rice crackers and on spelt tortillas. yum! I wrote it down in my recipe book. hope that's ok...we loved it.
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