license vs DRM

[dsvick]

Would it be possible or even feasible to have licenses for books instead of DRM. With restrictions in place for most DRM schemes you can't loan, trade, give away, or sell your eBooks that you purchased.

What if, instead of the DRM, you got a license for that eBook that had to be entered to read it. The license would be yours to keep and do with what you like. Someone, publishers, or book sellers, or a third party would need to keep a license server somewhere to allow for the verification and authorization - that would be fairly easy to set up. The harder part would be in setting up all the readers to handle the licenses and authorization process and in getting them and the publishers to handle it the same way.

Sure there will still be piracy and license algorithms will get cracked but with more rights to the eBooks there will, hopefully, be less incentive to do that.

I'm sure there are a lot of considerations I didn't list or even think of but I just wanted to get this out there.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Would it be possible or even feasible to have licenses for books instead of DRM. With restrictions in place for most DRM schemes you can't loan, trade, give away, or sell your eBooks that you purchased.

What if, instead of the DRM, you got a license for that eBook that had to be entered to read it. The license would be yours to keep and do with what you like. Someone, publishers, or book sellers, or a third party would need to keep a license server somewhere to allow for the verification and authorization - that would be fairly easy to set up. The harder part would be in setting up all the readers to handle the licenses and authorization process and in getting them and the publishers to handle it the same way.

Sure there will still be piracy and license algorithms will get cracked but with more rights to the eBooks there will, hopefully, be less incentive to do that.

I'm sure there are a lot of considerations I didn't list or even think of but I just wanted to get this out there.

Not possible with what you propose. It would only work with internet able devices.

But something a bit like it is already in use, by B&N (originally from Fictionwise). Ereader format requires you to enter a "password" (generally, your CC information), which it then uses to decrypt the book. It saves the password somewhere because the second time you open the book, it won't ask for it again.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Not possible with what you propose. It would only work with internet able devices.

That's a good point, unless it went through software on a PC for those devices that are not internet or 3G capable.

[ficbot]

And if the software breaks or the server is down or something, nobody can read? No thank you. This is the same issue I have with everything living on the 'cloud.' Some of us are not (nor do we wish to be) hooked up to, and reliant on, somebody else's equipment.

The only form of license and/or DR< I am okay with are:

1) Library books which expire (i.e. you know and understand it is a rental, and you are okay with it going kablooey on day 23 or whatever)
2) Watermarking or some other kind of 'social' drm which does not interfere with usability, file conversions, multiple devices or whatever. eReader is close to this, but you still have to manually enter in the number and you still can't run a file conversion on it unless you remove the DRM first.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by ficbot

2) Watermarking or some other kind of 'social' drm which does not interfere with usability, file conversions, multiple devices or whatever. eReader is close to this, but you still have to manually enter in the number and you still can't run a file conversion on it unless you remove the DRM first.

In a perfect world (without DRM, that is), it wouldn't matter what format you bought. You'd be able to download it in all formats. All of them watermarked... (a bit like the Multiformat at FW, but then with some form of social DRM aka watermark).

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by ficbot

2) Watermarking or some other kind of 'social' drm which does not interfere with usability, file conversions, multiple devices or whatever.

That's not DRM! Honestly, the word's misused when it's really quite specific. The social methods are a form of copy protection.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Would it be possible or even feasible to have licenses for books instead of DRM. With restrictions in place for most DRM schemes you can't loan, trade, give away, or sell your eBooks that you purchased.

It may be possible, but do you really think that DRM restricts those rights by accident? It's the publishers who have chosen to take those rights away. DRM could allow those rights as well, if they wanted it to. The first thing you'd have to do is convince the publishers to give us those rights back.

[Penforhire]

There are systems sort of like this for PC games.

"Steam" allows me to buy a game on-line and play it on any PC where I can log into my Steam account. The portability is dependent on the Steam servers being "up" but local installations still play even if disconnected from the internet. However... I don't think I can sell individual games. I have seen entire Steam accounts for sale. Those would come with every game ever bought, all or nothing.

[guyanonymous]

No - you can't sell/pass on the games, even though to do so would be easy with their system.

And that's the one downside, when the servers are down, you can't get online for most of them or connect to other players (for multiplayer games, even those where you can run your own server).

[DawnFalcon]

Legally? Yes, you can. If you make a separate account for the game, and pass that account on with the game second hand? They can do precisely nothing to stop you.

And yes, the smart thing to do with Steam is one game/account. Pain in the ass, but until they start following the legal requirements...

[asjogren]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It may be possible, but do you really think that DRM restricts those rights by accident? It's the publishers who have chosen to take those rights away. DRM could allow those rights as well, if they wanted it to. The first thing you'd have to do is convince the publishers to give us those rights back.

Yes, but I think it is really difficult to to keep control AND give those rights. And these publishers seem to be heavily into control.

My view, is that this is THEIR problem. We can give feedback as to if a particular scheme will satisfy us, or not. Like: how could DRM be acceptable to us - what would have to exist first? Would a lending system like the Nook pioneered be acceptable for lending? Would selling used eBooks through an exchange be acceptable?

We can say what we will do individually. For me, they will not be getting my money for eBooks at their desired price and their currently delivered rights. Borrowed and used paper books are too available and cost effective.

And we can show how tenuous their position is. One break-way publisher offering a new and generous model to authors can leave the Big 6 with diminishing new talent. Once eBooks become a significant part of the market - these Big 6 Publishers primarily become middlemen in an environment that needs fewer middlemen.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It may be possible, but do you really think that DRM restricts those rights by accident? It's the publishers who have chosen to take those rights away. DRM could allow those rights as well, if they wanted it to. The first thing you'd have to do is convince the publishers to give us those rights back.

That's a good point, I was thinking that this might be more a middle ground solution for everyone. It would not be as restrictive as the current DRM but would not be the complete free for all that no DRM would mean either.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Yes, but I think it is really difficult to to keep control AND give those rights. And these publishers seem to be heavily into control.

It would be easy for them to "re-register" a given ebook, by removing your registration from it and transferring it to someone else. The transfer would have to be done by their servers (and would not "remove access" to that book on any device that wasn't connected--but as soon as that device tried to validate a new book, it'd connect to the server & lose the ability to read the transferred book).

Since that takes effort (miniscule, but effort), the DRM server company could charge a fee for it--perhaps a dollar to transfer ownership of the file. This would allow people to sell used ebooks for, say, $2-3, and make a small profit.

Publishers won't go for it. They want to lock people into 1 purchase=1 reader.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by ficbot

And if the software breaks or the server is down or something, nobody can read?

Valid point but it would only require a single validation in order to be able to read it. Not every time you opened it.

I was envisioning something where you have piece of software on your pc very similar to the Adobe Digital editions, but where you can transfer the license/key with the book to another person.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

It would be easy for them to "re-register" a given ebook, by removing your registration from it and transferring it to someone else. The transfer would have to be done by their servers (and would not "remove access" to that book on any device that wasn't connected--but as soon as that device tried to validate a new book, it'd connect to the server & lose the ability to read the transferred book).

Since that takes effort (miniscule, but effort), the DRM server company could charge a fee for it--perhaps a dollar to transfer ownership of the file. This would allow people to sell used ebooks for, say, $2-3, and make a small profit.

Publishers won't go for it. They want to lock people into 1 purchase=1 reader.

I was not even thinking of a 'registration' more like a simple activation. An actual registration where you need to give up your name and other information would be too onerous and I think a lot of people would be resistant to that as well.

On the other hand I can see that being a much easier way than having some central server somewhere try to keep track of what device or PC a book is active on and who really has the rights? So maybe a simple registration handled through the software on the person individual PC would work. It would need to be minimally invasive though.