Accessibility

[JSWolf]

What programs are there that handle the ePub 3.x accessibility? Is that just a pipe dream or are there enough programs on enough platforms to handle it?

[Quoth]

Is it that important with the massive rise in number of Audiobook titles?
And iOS and Android are the only two platforms that matter for epub3.

[KevinH]

Not for accessibility. Many users in need of good screen readers do use desktop machines. This is especially true at my university (retired now) where all faculty were pushed to make our materials available for the visually impaired and rightly so. We did use epub3 based materials as meeting that criteria if they passed the Daisy Ace checker. Audio books help but access to screen readers and materials that worked well with them was crucial for the more advanced classes.

See https://daisy.org/activities/
for some tools to both produce and consume epub3 and daisy on various platforms.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Is it that important with the massive rise in number of Audiobook titles?
And iOS and Android are the only two platforms that matter for epub3.

Waaaallll...(wait, is there another platform for ePUB3?)

There are some vendors starting to check uploaded files for accessibility, OR, they are checking accessibility for certain designations (for example, "Great on Kindle") so knowing this information--Jon's query--could be valuable.

The PITA about accessibility is that there are 5000 different checkers therefor and they all check for different things. Don't get me started about how almost every damned university out there has their own set of standards, with a handful of "stuff" thrown in that isn't in any standard at all. (Grumble...)

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Is there a program that works with all of the accessibility features of ePub3 or is ePub3 just too much of a mess?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is there a program that works with all of the accessibility features of ePub3 or is ePub3 just too much of a mess?

I do not know, if you were asking me.

Hitch

[KevinH]

JSWolf, you seem to have an irrational dislike of epub3 for some reason. ePub3 is not a mess anywhere. Internationally it has replaced epub2 almost completely in many places including in Japan where support for vertical text is important.

epub2 was good for its day but epub3 is better and epub3 can be made backwards compatible with epub2 only readers for basic fiction, supplanting any need for epub2.

You seem to be living 10 years in the past on this issue, yet are up to date with other things and I am not sure why?

And if I am remembering correctly, you were like that for python2 vs 3 as well. Please remember not all change is bad. Both epub3 replacing epub2 and python3 replacing python2 were good things, and neededto reach a wider international audience.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by KevinH

JSWolf, you seem to have an irrational dislike of epub3 for some reason. ePub3 is not a mess anywhere. Internationally it has replaced epub2 almost completely in many places including in Japan where support for vertical text is important.

epub2 was good for its day but epub3 is better and epub3 can be made backwards compatible with epub2 only readers for basic fiction, supplanting any need for epub2.

You seem to be living 10 years in the past on this issue, yet are up to date with other things and I am not sure why?

And if I am remembering correctly, you were like that for python2 vs 3 as well. Please remember not all change is bad. Both epub3 replacing epub2 and python3 replacing python2 were good things, and neededto reach a wider international audience.

No, I think that our Wolfie is still upset about multimedia. And he loves his NCX, too. :-)

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hitch

No, I think that our Wolfie is still upset about multimedia. And he loves his NCX, too. :-)

Personally, I include the toc.ncx file in epub3 epubs unless there is a good reason not to do so. One sad example was a educational environment document where their in-house accessibility test software barfed on finding the toc.ncx file. There are quite a few ereaders and software that do not handle an epub3 navigation document so I see no good reason for not improving compatibility.

[JSWolf]

What I am trying to find out what software out there that's going to handle ePub 3's accessibility.

Hitch is right,I do dislike the multimedia nonsense added to ePub 3. But I'm trying to find out about other features and the support for them. In this case, accessibility.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What I am trying to find out what software out there that's going to handle ePub 3's accessibility.

Hitch is right,I do dislike the multimedia nonsense added to ePub 3. But I'm trying to find out about other features and the support for them. In this case, accessibility.

Yabbut, Wolfie--just because you can add multimedia to ePUB3 doesn't mean you gotta. I mean, I now have a car that has a bloody computer in the middle of the dash, with all sorts of entertainment nonsense on it. Doesn't mean I have to go poking around in it whilst I'm driving, or even turn it on. (Granted, the backup camera is sweet.)

Just ignore it. We could put those in ePUB2, too. It wasn't commonplace, but it WAS doable and I know, because we did it. We simply need to...accept what ePUB3.x is good at, and ignore those things we neither need nor want. Right? Right.

It's time for both of us to move on, Jon, from how much we've disliked ePUB3.x. :-) Go find other stuff to loathe.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yabbut, Wolfie--just because you can add multimedia to ePUB3 doesn't mean you gotta. I mean, I now have a car that has a bloody computer in the middle of the dash, with all sorts of entertainment nonsense on it. Doesn't mean I have to go poking around in it whilst I'm driving, or even turn it on. (Granted, the backup camera is sweet.)

Just ignore it. We could put those in ePUB2, too. It wasn't commonplace, but it WAS doable and I know, because we did it. We simply need to...accept what ePUB3.x is good at, and ignore those things we neither need nor want. Right? Right.

It's time for both of us to move on, Jon, from how much we've disliked ePUB3.x. :-) Go find other stuff to loathe.

Hitch

How about that KFX?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

How about that KFX?

Bite your tongue.

You can still get into ePUB3. You can make it hold still and show you its guts; you can use it as-is or fix it.

KFX is a completely different animal. Two two really aren't the same thing. ePUB3, like it or not, was developed in the daylight, in the sunlight. KFX, not so much.

Hitch

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

How about that KFX?

Here is a serious answer to a not so serious question.

KFX can only be accessed via Amazon's software and that software isn't particularly friendly to accessibility. KFX focuses on visible rendering and strips out semantic features of the source file. Some examples are the distinction between text and headings and between <em> and <i>. ARIA markup is completely discarded.

On a more positive note, Amazon touts that Kindle for PC supports the NVDA and JAWS Screen Readers and as far as I know that only works if the book is in KFX format.

[KevinH]

And here is a list of Reading Software that Daisy Recommends:

https://daisy.org/info-help/guidance...ading-systems/


And here is my favourite quote about accessibility and epub2 vs epub3 from
http://epubsecrets.com/ebook-accessi...be-missing.php from way back in 2018.

Leave EPUB 2 in the Dust

Fifty percent of the ebooks received were EPUB 2. Le deep sigh. The EPUB 3 standard offers a major breakthrough in terms of accessibility because it sees a bringing together in a single key format the features that were previously only part of a specialist, accessible format – such as the DAISY format – with a mainstream format for publishing ebooks.

There is no reason at this point in the digital publishing timeline to keep producing EPUB 2.