Why don't E-readers have a Replaceable Battery

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

No, it isn't.
It is true, but it isn't the only reason, and so isn't that simple.
Non-removable batteries reduce size and weight, by not needing a battery shell, and allowing the battery to flow around other components.
Non-removable batteries allow sealed bodies and so make waterproofing easier.

Waterproofing wasn't a thing back when devices started having non-replaceable batteries. So that's not an excuse. Weight isn't an excuse. It's so when the battery goes, most people will go an get a new device. It's pure greed.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I've never been able to understand super-thin cell phone designs that are so fragile they require protective cases anyhow. And it's not just Apple.

The thing is, if they stopped making phones, Readers, tablets, etc thinner and lighter, they could put in a heftier battery. Plus, they would be easier to hold. I find thinner to be a bother sometimes.

I prefer thicker which means easier to hold. I would like a new iPhone to be he same thickness as the iPhone 5.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The thing is, if they stopped making phones, Readers, tablets, etc thinner and lighter, they could put in a heftier battery. Plus, they would be easier to hold. I find thinner to be a bother sometimes.

I prefer thicker which means easier to hold. I would like a new iPhone to be he same thickness as the iPhone 5.

I agree, even the phones that I have with batteries have to have at the very least a grip able bumper cover, since I find all of them are too thin and hard to hold. My main phone the Note 2 is fully enclosed to be fully protected.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Samsung isn't making any new phones with replaceable batteries

I bought a spare Samsung Galaxy J3 Orbit just for reading. I don't have service on it but it is locked to my provider so I have it as a backup. It does have a user replaceable battery. It's not a high end phone. They sell for between $50 and $150 depending on where you find it and which carrier. But it's a first rate phone for reading.

My regular phone is a Galaxy S5, also with a replaceable battery. But the J3 has Android 8.x instead of 6.x on my S5 and I like that better and I've been wondering if I want to use it as my regular phone and use the S5 for reading. I haven't decided yet but they went down to $35 for Black Friday so I bought a spare, just in case.

Barry

[leebase]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Waterproofing wasn't a thing back when devices started having non-replaceable batteries. So that's not an excuse. Weight isn't an excuse. It's so when the battery goes, most people will go an get a new device. It's pure greed.

If it was pure greed then some companies would make such phones so they could grab market share from the companies “screwing their users”.

I’m not saying the trade offs are what you would choose, or I would choose...but all of these have reasonable engineering explanations.

What isn’t reasonable is that in such a hyper competitive field like smart phones...any company could thrive for long doing things “just for greed”.

It’s like when Jobs forbid Adobe Flash from being supported on the iPhone. People railed about the greed...as if the ONLY reason Steve Jobs had for not supporting flash was to force people to use the App Store.

And for a time...the Android community capitalized on this “customer hostile” action of Apple's. Oh...Android was going to support flash and that’s why you should buy an Android tablet over an iPad.

What happened? No Android tablet or smartphone supports flash. Those few who tried had terrible user experiences. Eventually Adobe killed the product...after the entire market shifted to HTML 5, Jobs choice of technology that he supported.

BUT....Jobs could have been wrong. Adobe, Google and Samsung could have made Flash work on Android and it would have been a terrific differentiator. Just as having memory card support and 3.5” headphone jacks are today.

If having user replaceable batteries was solely a good thing..,and there were no positive trade offs for sealing the battery in....then some manufacturers would be making those devices.

[patrickt]

Probably the same reason cell phones don't and smart watches don't. Probably for the same reason laptops regardless of brand don't.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

No, it isn't.
It is true, but it isn't the only reason, and so isn't that simple.
Non-removable batteries reduce size and weight, by not needing a battery shell, and allowing the battery to flow around other components.
Non-removable batteries allow sealed bodies and so make waterproofing easier.

While non-replaceable batteries have been around for quite a while the latest thrust toward waterproof devices tends to justify the decisions. By the way, Apple service stations will replace the battery for you and recently did it very cheaply when people complained about their reducing performance issue for old batteries.

Dale

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

...By the way, Apple service stations will replace the battery for you and recently did it very cheaply when people complained about their reducing performance issue for old batteries.

Yeah, but I think that was to stave off a possible lawsuit. That's about the only time they do any repairs cheaply.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by leebase

any company could thrive for long doing things “just for greed”.

The name for that is Capitalism. Controlled greed. We put greed to work for us and try not to let it get too far out of hand. It works. It's not perfect. I think our phones without replaceable batteries are an example of it not being perfect. And the quality and variety of our phones are examples of it working.

However, I don't think "just for greed" is a very apt description. Companies make decisions for a lot of reasons and greed is an important one but not the only one. We really do want thin phones and we do want to pay as little as possible for the most phone we can get.

Barry

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Yeah, but I think that was to stave off a possible lawsuit. That's about the only time they do any repairs cheaply.

I looked on the Apple USA website and for you guys battery replacements are between USD49 and USD69. As is the case here in NZ they also state that if you bring it into an authorised service center they will try to do the repair while you wait. NZ prices are a couple of dollars dearer. Hardly expensive.

As an alternative I looked at just one local Apple specialist repair shop here in NZ, they are a little dearer than Apple NZ but not much and they normally expect to turn the phone around within 1 hour if dropped in (30minutes to 1hour turn arounds for battery, screen and other simple component replacement are typical here) or if couriered to them return overnight if 1 hour available to perform the repair on day of receipt.

I've checked out some of Apples other repair costs and they don't seem to be screwing anybody with those either as far as I can see. Much in line with others. So your "only time" and reference to "possible lawsuit" comment also seems way out of line.

Do you just make up this negative stuff up that you have been posting about obsolescence, time for repairs and costs for repair? Because it doesn't seem like you have checked the reality before hitting your keyboard.

EDIT: I should note that I don't use Apple products and never have. So I have no reason to act as an Apple fanboy in any defense of them. So just relating the facts.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

I looked on the Apple USA website and for you guys battery replacements are between USD49 and USD69! As is the case here in NZ they also state that if you bring it into an authorised service center they will try to do the repair while you wait. NZ prices are a couple of dollars dearer.

Some history.

Battery replacement used to be $99. Then in 2017, people noticed their iPhone 6/6s slowing down (like below iPhone 5 or 5s level). Further investigation revealed Apple was purposely throttling the CPU down when battery health goes below a certain level. Apple was denying people battery replacements and were not acknowledging there was throttling going on though. Then the issue went public and got reported to mass media.

Result:

• Options added to iOS to disable throttling.
• More transparent battery health reporting in iOS.
• $29 battery replacement for any reason on iPhone 6 to 8/X up to December 2018.
• Lower regular battery replacement costs from $99 to $49-69 after December 2018.

[leebase]

Companies strive to make money. Of course. In a competitive environment, a company who makes decisions in favor of their profit AND in disfavor of their customers....is going to find themselves competing against companies making the choice to make a little less per unit while pleasing the customer.

Apple’s entire strategy is built upon providing a superior overall experience enabling Apple to command and maintain higher margins.

But...Apple is only about 15% of smartphone sales and 20% of the install base. There are hundreds and hundreds of companies making smartphones. Surely SOME of them make different choices about user replaceable batteries. And if not....there’s probably a good set of reasons for the choice.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Some history.

Battery replacement used to be $99. Then in 2017, people noticed their iPhone 6/6s slowing down (like below iPhone 5 or 5s level). Further investigation revealed Apple was purposely throttling the CPU down when battery health goes below a certain level. Apple was denying people battery replacements and were not acknowledging there was throttling going on though. Then the issue went public and got reported to mass media.

Result:

• Options added to iOS to disable throttling.
• More transparent battery health reporting in iOS.
• $29 battery replacement for any reason on iPhone 6 to 8/X up to December 2018.
• Lower regular battery replacement costs from $99 to $49-69 after December 2018.

Yes, I am aware of that history (except I would comment that denying battery replacements as you claim they did would be counter to consumer protection legislation in many countries, my own included), that is why I checked some of their other repair costs and noted in my post that they did not seem out of line either with those for other phones.

I would also comment that it is not unusual for other devices to throttle CPU, etc. when battery health is diminished. But they do not suffer from chattering hate campaigns because they do not have a leading market position, a position that for some device types generally precipitates such campaigns.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by leebase

...There are hundreds and hundreds of companies making smartphones. Surely SOME of them make different choices about user replaceable batteries. And if not....there’s probably a good set of reasons for the choice.

Yes I agree. There is plenty of competition in the smartphone (and feature phone) market and when I look at how many different manufacturers' phones are presented for sale even in my little country of around 5 million, and then the number of different models each of them sells one has to be quite confident that the market is healthy enough to continually shake down to what consumers want.

One only has to look at the trail of things all the main manufacturers have tried over the years hoping for a competitive edge, but then quickly abandoned when they found there was no real demand for the innovation in the market.

[leebase]

FWIW - I would like user replaceable batteries, memory expansion slots, and many other features my beloved iPhones don't have. I wish I could expand internal memory later, after purchase (especially on Macs). I wish I could load apps that Apple doesn't approve of....accepting the risk myself. I wish I could completely take control of my iPhone and iPad...with root access or even install a different OS.

I'm not unsympathetic to many of the complaints about the choices Apple makes. But i am far more pleased than annoyed. I love my mac, ipad, iphone, Airpod, Homepod, AppleMusic, iTunes, AppleTv, iMessage and Facetime lovely manicured garden.