MobileRead March 2017 Discussion: Queen Lucia by E.F. Benson (spoilers)

[WT Sharpe]

The time has come to discuss the March 2017 MobileRead Book Club selection, Queen Lucia by E.F. Benson. What did you think?

[issybird]

In another thread, Tom said he thought Lucia would make a good sitcom. I mentioned the two mini-series I know of, but then I realized it was a sitcom, set 70 years later and transformed from the upper middle class to the middle class.

Spoiler:

I know there are differences, but it seems to me the pretentious snobbery, innate poor taste and lack of self-awareness are the same.

[JSWolf]

There actually WAS a TV series.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There actually WAS a TV series.

There actually have been two, as I said in my post But they were mini-series based on the books, as opposed to a sitcom using the characters.

I'm just trying to have some fun here, Jon!

[JSWolf]

I've watched Keeping Up Appearences and it's a very enjoyable and funny show.

I can see some similarities.

[Dazrin]

Keeping Up Appearances was definitely in my mind when I read this. I enjoyed this in nearly the same way but if I had tried to read this one on my Kindle I doubt I would have made it past chapter 1. It is not something I could have forced myself to finish. That said, instead I listened to the Overdrive audio version by Nadia May (Wanda McCaddon/Donada Peters) and enjoyed it quite a bit. In the rubber-necking at an accident kind of way. You can't not watch, but you know you really shouldn't.

The only characters I enjoyed were Olga and Georgie's sisters Hermione and Ursula (I really liked these two; the female, slightly tidier versions of Onslow from KuA). I didn't care much for the main cast (Lucia, Georgie, the Quantocks). Lucia and Georgie's baby talk and the Lucas's "Italian" would drive me nuts. I can't stand it when my 6 y.o. uses baby talk with her friends, let alone adults. I wish Peppino had been more sympathetic; he doesn't get too involved with the nonsense but he doesn't exactly distance himself either and he would have been a good foil, ala Richard Bucket, "pronounced 'Bouquet'".

[CRussel]

I started reading this on my Kindle, and put it down twice. But as soon as I started listening to the Nadia May narration, I totally "got it" and was able to easily go back and forth between the audio book and the ebook versions. (Made easier by having WhisperSync, of course.)

My basis for comparison is Jeeves & Wooster. There, we had two quite likable protagonists, but much the same quality of humour. (And, of course, who _wouldn't_ want a Jeeves!) This was much harder to get in to, though I can see exactly how it would work as a series/sitcom. Except that the weakness is exactly that lack of the Jeeves character to act as the foil, the calming and sustaining influence, etc. Olga doesn't quite work for that.

Will I be reading the other's in the series? Possibly. I'm certainly glad to have read this, and all the others are available as McCaddon/Nadia May narrations, so there's that to look forward to.

[issybird]

I've loved these books for years and have read them several times. I enjoyed the Nadia May narration, but if I could only have one, it would be the written and not spoken version. The humor is so delicious, in that understated manner expressed by somewhat complicated syntax, that I appreciate it more if I can savour it.

I'm with Dazrin in that I think the key element, as with Hyacinth, is that Lucia is so unlikable. You're rooting against her and delight in each comeuppance. But she has to bounce back, or where's the story? A permanently crushed Lucia would be no fun at all.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by issybird

I've loved these books for years and have read them several times. I enjoyed the Nadia May narration, but if I could only have one, it would be the written and not spoken version. The humor is so delicious, in that understated manner expressed by somewhat complicated syntax, that I appreciate it more if I can savour it.

I'm with Dazrin in that I think the key element, as with Hyacinth, is that Lucia is so unlikable. You're rooting against her and delight in each comeuppance. But she has to bounce back, or where's the story? A permanently crushed Lucia would be no fun at all.

Yes, I can see the first part of that, the reading now works for me on that level. But it took a couple of chapters from Nadia May to get to that point.

And yes, a permanently crushed Lucia would kill the whole thing.

[WT Sharpe]

Here's my entire review at goodreads. Like many of you, the parallels to Keeping Up Appearances was obvious.

In considering the personality of the title character I couldn't help but be reminded of Hyacinth Bucket on the old BBC sitcom Keeping Up Appearances. The similarities are so pronounced that I can't help but wonder if the novel was the inspiration for the television show. I dare say that anyone who likes one will like the other.

Having written that about the ebook, I'm in the process now of listening to the free audio version from Librivox.

[BenG]

Both TV series are based on the fourth book Mapp and Lucia.

The second book leaves Riseholme for the seaside village of Tilling where Elizabeth Mapp holds sway. She also likes to order the lives of her friends in the town but is less subtle and more of a bully than Lucia. I found the secondary characters in Tilling to be more interesting than the ones in Riseholme.

The third book has Lucia in London and we find that she is not completely selfish.

The fourth book, Mapp and Lucia, is the best in the series. Lucia and Georgie spend the summer in Tilling and of course Mapp and Lucia clash.

The audiobook of Miss Mapp is good with Miriam Margolyes (Professor Sprout in the Harry Potter movies) narrating, but beware of some of the latter audiobooks. Some are abridged versions.

[issybird]

One thing that struck me is that while the story is of its time, it's not in its time. For a book published in 1920 it's remarkable in a way that the society portrayed shows no aftereffects of the Great War, which had just ended. Well, people sought escape in comic novels; that's understandable; you see the same phenomenon in Wodehouse. But much of the action, especially Daisy's various crank interests, reflected how people sought to cope with the grim post-war reality. This would include her interest in Christian Science and her guru, but most notably her involvement in Spiritualism, which had a huge bump in interest immediately after the war, as people sought to contact their dead. But lacking the grief and desperation that fed the movement in the outside world, the Riseholmites could abandon it easily and move on to the next stunt.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by issybird

In another thread, Tom said he thought Lucia would make a good sitcom. I mentioned the two mini-series I know of, but then I realized it was a sitcom, set 70 years later and transformed from the upper middle class to the middle class.

Spoiler:

I know there are differences, but it seems to me the pretentious snobbery, innate poor taste and lack of self-awareness are the same.

Originally Posted by Dazrin

Keeping Up Appearances was definitely in my mind when I read this. I enjoyed this in nearly the same way but if I had tried to read this one on my Kindle I doubt I would have made it past chapter 1....

...I wish Peppino had been more sympathetic; he doesn't get too involved with the nonsense but he doesn't exactly distance himself either and he would have been a good foil, ala Richard Bucket, "pronounced 'Bouquet'".

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Here's my entire review at goodreads. Like many of you, the parallels to Keeping Up Appearances was obvious.

I wrote about the similarities to Keeping Up Appearances in my Goodreads review of Queen Lucia from January:

...The creator of Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced bouquet, of course) had to have been a fan of Lucia. Hyacinth is like a middle-class and even more ridiculous version of her.

Of course, I have a tendency to relate things to each other often and sometimes in unusual ways, so I can never be sure if it's something everyone would notice and agree with, or something only I do. With this I think we can safely say that with so many of us seeing it, the creator of Keeping Up Appearances had to have been a fan of Benson.

Originally Posted by issybird

One thing that struck me is that while the story is of its time, it's not in its time. For a book published in 1920 it's remarkable in a way that the society portrayed shows no aftereffects of the Great War, which had just ended. Well, people sought escape in comic novels; that's understandable; you see the same phenomenon in Wodehouse. But much of the action, especially Daisy's various crank interests, reflected how people sought to cope with the grim post-war reality. This would include her interest in Christian Science and her guru, but most notably her involvement in Spiritualism, which had a huge bump in interest immediately after the war, as people sought to contact their dead. But lacking the grief and desperation that fed the movement in the outside world, the Riseholmites could abandon it easily and move on to the next stunt.

I finished the second book, Miss Mapp, recently and I think Queen Lucia is definitely more 'fantasy' in that everyone is so carefree and there is an optimistic and upbeat feel to it all. Miss Mapp still has this somewhat, but I think it's more 'realistic' in that you do see more of the aftereffects and worries in people's attitudes and somehow the second book seems just slightly more sombre. Perhaps a few extra years of 'calming down' from the war let Benson add back in a touch more realism in that regard, though since I'm only two books in I don't know what 'tone' the remaining ones have.

[BenG]

The difference is that in many ways Emmeline Lucas is Queen Lucia, whereas Hyacinth Bucket just wants to be and usually fails.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by BenG

The difference is that in many ways Emmeline Lucas is Queen Lucia, whereas Hyacinth Bucket just wants to be and usually fails.

Yes. People give Hyacinth a wide berth, but they're willing to buy into Lucia's pretenses, because there's entertainment in them. But then the people in Hyacinth's world have lives, but those in Riseholme really have nothing to do and they don't have Onslow's predilection for being bone-idle. One can't embroider all day long.

As for Miss Mapp, more than anything it comes down to money. Everyone in Riseholme seemingly has as much as they need, but budgets in Tilling pinch a little. Not that everyone still didn'wt have several servants and live lives of leisure!