Unwelcome

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's precisely why the end of the sentence said "... although the experience is more enjoyable if you have a device on which you can install a reading app" .

I read "more enjoyable" as having more options regarding ways to turn pages or ways to show the book. Missing functionality wouldn't fit in that category!

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Partly true. You cannot read offline if you use the webbrowser.

Actually, that's not true at all. If you use the web browser to read by going to http://read.amazon.com you can download books to your device to read offline.

Shari

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

Actually, that's not true at all. If you use the web browser to read by going to http://read.amazon.com you can download books to your device to read offline.

Shari

I didn't know that - thanks!

[underscore]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No bookstore, either physical or electronic, could stock "every book ever made".

Why an electronic bookstore can't be universal or at least approximate it?
Isn't this the whole coolness of having a worldwide network of information?
I don't get why out-of-print books are usually not republished at least in an electronic format.
No space, no business risk, very few work for the publishing company who own the rights, and the occasional money from me if i want to read a novel just published on that may 1958 number of Astounding which i don't find in ebay...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by underscore

I don't get why out-of-print books are usually not republished at least in an electronic format.
No space, no business risk, very few work for the publishing company who own the rights, and the occasional money from me if i want to read a novel just published on that may 1958 number of Astounding which i don't find in ebay...

Because the overwhelming majority of books published prior to 20 or so years ago don't exist in any digital format. It costs a considerable amount of money for a publisher to digitise a book; money which they won't spend unless there's a reasonable expectation of a return on their investment.

Added to which there's the very real issue of the fact that they may very well not have publishing rights for an ebook.

We are, though, in a pretty good position compared to where we were 10 or even 5 years ago. The major (and minor) publishers are steadily churning out their back catalogues in ebook format. I've bought a lot of "old" books in the last few years that have newly appeared as ebooks.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because the overwhelming majority of books published prior to 20 or so years ago don't exist in any digital format. It costs a considerable amount of money for a publisher to digitise a book; money which they won't spend unless there's a reasonable expectation of a return on their investment.

Added to which there's the very real issue of the fact that they may very well not have publishing rights for an ebook.

We are, though, in a pretty good position compared to where we were 10 or even 5 years ago. The major (and minor) publishers are steadily churning out their back catalogues in ebook format. I've bought a lot of "old" books in the last few years that have newly appeared as ebooks.

Actually, I believe that the Google books project, which is still ongoing, has scanned in some 12 millions books in partnership with around 30 libraries around the world. While those books aren't available as ebooks per se, they do now exist in digital format.

It always seemed to me that a reasonable compromise for google books was that in return for being able to use the search indexes that they generate from the digitized books, that google should make the digitized book available to the rights holder as the basis for generating an ebook.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Actually, I believe that the Google books project, which is still ongoing, has scanned in some 12 millions books in partnership with around 30 libraries around the world. While those books aren't available as ebooks per se, they do now exist in digital format.

It always seemed to me that a reasonable compromise for google books was that in return for being able to use the search indexes that they generate from the digitized books, that google should make the digitized book available to the rights holder as the basis for generating an ebook.

That's seems like an entirely reasonable suggestion to me, which is not to say that there may not be some legal objection to it that's no evident to us mere mortals .

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It costs a considerable amount of money for a publisher to digitise a book; money which they won't spend unless there's a reasonable expectation of a return on their investment.

Any estimate on the cost of digitising a book?

I have a friend that makes e-books of old movie novelizations as a hobby. I can't remember now how long he spends scanning and copy editing the books, but he does it in his free time and I don't think it takes him long to do. And his results look quite professional.

I don't believe making an e-book from a paper book is quite the sink of time and money people think it is. Now sorting out the rights and designing a new cover may be what makes it cost prohibitive.

[ekbell]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Any estimate on the cost of digitising a book?

I have a friend that makes e-books of old movie novelizations as a hobby. I can't remember now how long he spends scanning and copy editing the books, but he does it in his free time and I don't think it takes him long to do. And his results look quite professional.

I don't believe making an e-book from a paper book is quite the sink of time and money people think it is. Now sorting out the rights and designing a new cover may be what makes it cost prohibitive.

What your friend does for love may well have a fair price tag if done professionally. Converting the average out-of-print book might be like many handicrafts, the only way to consider it profitable is if the labor is free.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by ekbell

What your friend does for love may well have a fair price tag if done professionally. Converting the average out-of-print book might be like many handicrafts, the only way to consider it profitable is if the labor is free.

My point is that the manpower/cost required to digitise a book needn't be enormous. An intern could do it.

I think what is prohibitive is securing the rights. That, I think, is what keeps many OOP books from making the leap to e-book.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by ekbell

What your friend does for love may well have a fair price tag if done professionally. Converting the average out-of-print book might be like many handicrafts, the only way to consider it profitable is if the labor is free.

Love this. Thank you.
Too many people think that time doesn't matter if one enjoys what they are doing. And hence they want your handiwork free or at cost.
That said: later this week, I will be doing two handmade thank you gifts that the recipients will appreciate both in time and effort.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

My point is that the manpower/cost required to digitise a book needn't be enormous. An intern could do it.

I think what is prohibitive is securing the rights. That, I think, is what keeps many OOP books from making the leap to e-book.

Let's do some "finger in the air" calculations, and guesstimate that it might take 30h work to create and proof-read (that's the time-consuming part) a typical work of fiction (that estimate is on the low end, based on my own experience of creating ebooks).

Let's guess that our book creator gets paid $30/hour (a fairly modest salary), and that the total cost to the company of employing that person is 3x their salary (that would be fairly typical). So, the cost to the publisher of producing the ebook would be 30 x 30 x 3, or $2700.

Now, let's guess that the publisher makes $2 profit for every copy of the book sold. That means that, before they'll break even, they need to sell 2700 / 2, or 1350 copies of the book.

Those are actually fairly steep sales figures for a back-catalogue book. Unless it's quite a popular book, it could take several years to sell that many copies. And until they're sold, the publisher's making a loss.

It's understandable why publishers do take the task of releasing their back catalogue as ebooks at a relatively slow pace.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Let's do some "finger in the air" calculations, and guesstimate that it might take 30h work to create and proof-read (that's the time-consuming part) a typical work of fiction (that estimate is on the low end, based on my own experience of creating ebooks).

Let's guess that our book creator gets paid $30/hour (a fairly modest salary), and that the total cost to the company of employing that person is 3x their salary (that would be fairly typical). So, the cost to the publisher of producing the ebook would be 30 x 30 x 3, or $2700.

Now, let's guess that the publisher makes $2 profit for every copy of the book sold. That means that, before they'll break even, they need to sell 2700 / 2, or 1350 copies of the book.

Those are actually fairly steep sales figures for a back-catalogue book. Unless it's quite a popular book, it could take several years to sell that many copies. And until they're sold, the publisher's making a loss.

It's understandable why publishers do take the task of releasing their back catalogue as ebooks at a relatively slow pace.

I get what you're saying, but the numbers are pulled out of thin air.

I guess I should ask my friend again what his estimate is for the amount of time he takes to put a book together. I can't remember now, but I don't believe it was thirty hours per book. And the books he puts out are of higher quality than many small press books I've purchased (though those have gotten better).

Also, there's a publisher I like, Piccadilly Publishing. They specialized (at least initially) in releasing westerns by the UK authors known as the Piccadilly Cowboys. These were books written '70's and '80's and you can be fairly sure that there weren't digital copies readily available. They sell their books for $1.99. I'm sure nobody is getting rich off the venture. But they've at least make enough to stay afloat for five years. And they wouldn't be able to do it if the costs you are quoting are accurate.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I get what you're saying, but the numbers are pulled out of thin air.

I guess I should ask my friend again what his estimate is for the amount of time he takes to put a book together. I can't remember now, but I don't believe it was thirty hours per book. And the books he puts out are of higher quality than many small press books I've purchased (though those have gotten better).

Also, there's a publisher I like, Piccadilly Publishing. They specialized (at least initially) in releasing westerns by the UK authors known as the Piccadilly Cowboys. These were books written '70's and '80's and you can be fairly sure that there weren't digital copies readily available. They sell their books for $1.99. I'm sure nobody is getting rich off the venture. But they've at least make enough to stay afloat for five years. And they wouldn't be able to do it if the costs you are quoting are accurate.

Does he proofread for OCR errors?

Because I could do a book in under an hour but I wouldn't guarantee its readability.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Does he proofread for OCR errors?

Because I could do a book in under an hour but I wouldn't guarantee its readability.

Please don't be absurd. As mentioned several times, his books are quite nice. Naturally they are proofed.