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Old 01-18-2025, 12:57 PM   #1
kandwo
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Measuring the screen quality of e-ink devices

One of the most respected Youtube reviewers of e-ink devices (mostly focused on note-taking devices) My Deep Guide has released the first in a series of videos in which he will try to objectively measure and compare the screen quality of various e-ink devices.



Most of the video is him explaining the methodology and showing his equipment. Presumably so that others can try it for themselves.

His stated goal is to have some objective measurements to back up subjective claims about clarity and sharpness that we see in online discussions all the time regarding different devices.

I somewhat doubt these results, however. While they seem mostly correct a couple of noteworthy points are that a Kaleido device scores very high for total contrast in spite of having a very low "whiteness value". He addresses this issue and says that he already has some ideas for how to adjust his method to better reflect real life experience. The bigger issue that I have is that physical paper scores among the bottom of the list - absurd for anyone who has compared a paper book of reasonable quality to an e-reader. And that elephant in the room, as it were, is not mentioned or explained at all.

What are your thoughts?

Last edited by issybird; 01-18-2025 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Fixed tag.
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Old 01-18-2025, 01:09 PM   #2
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He's a Youtube reviewer, not an expert on measurements of reflectance, brightness, contrast and sharpness.
You need specialist gear AND the training to use it.

Also there are a huge varieties of paper and techniques for printing it. I was saw a lab in the section of a pharmaceutical company that was used to check the quality of the print and packaging.

Not only do you need all the gear, training and experience, but controlled and calibrated lighting.

I've found almost all YouTube reviews appalling compared to classic era Tomorrow's World, Horizon, and Panorama before the BBC lost it's values for content and production, though they are still better than random YouTubers.
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Old 01-18-2025, 03:50 PM   #3
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Old 01-18-2025, 04:33 PM   #4
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Eh. What matters to me is what I can see with my own eyes. Of course that's not "truth" or objective in the least; but for me, as an user, my own subjective experience is all that matters. The actual facts and other users' experiences may well be different, and while I'd probably be interested enough to learn about some of them, at the end of the day my own user experience is what counts.
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Old 01-18-2025, 07:15 PM   #5
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Eh. What matters to me is what I can see with my own eyes. Of course that's not "truth" or objective in the least; but for me, as an user, my own subjective experience is all that matters. The actual facts and other users' experiences may well be different, and while I'd probably be interested enough to learn about some of them, at the end of the day my own user experience is what counts.
Me two.
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Old 01-19-2025, 03:54 AM   #6
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Eh. What matters to me is what I can see with my own eyes. Of course that's not "truth" or objective in the least; but for me, as an user, my own subjective experience is all that matters. The actual facts and other users' experiences may well be different, and while I'd probably be interested enough to learn about some of them, at the end of the day my own user experience is what counts.
I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Certainly not me.

However, I still think it might be a useful tool to include in Youtube reviews, since they often cover devices that we as potential buyers don't have the opportunity to see in real life before buying.

But I don't know if this will actually measure what's important to me.

I recently bought an Onyx Boox Page and don't like it at all because the text is ever so slightly fuzzy due to the glass layer on top. The contrast is great, though.
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Old 01-19-2025, 04:03 AM   #7
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Don't all non-Mobius Carta screens have a glass layer on top?
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Old 01-19-2025, 04:13 AM   #8
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However, I still think it might be a useful tool to include in Youtube reviews, since they often cover devices that we as potential buyers don't have the opportunity to see in real life before buying.
I had never seen any of my dozen or so eink readers in real life before buying - eink isn't popular here and few devices are sold locally. Mostly Kindles (which is actually funny, since local ebooks are epub). In that sense, yes, videos are sometimes helpful; then again, not always (since both the ambient and device lighting, chosen font etc. might be very different from my own preferences). Videos comparing unlit eink screens are totally useless to me - I never read with the light off. So I don't pay all that much attention to various Youtube reviews.
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Old 01-19-2025, 05:53 AM   #9
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Don't all non-Mobius Carta screens have a glass layer on top?
Many are plastic. Glass is very expensive to micro etch to get it matt.
It's the substrate that's glass for non-Mobius and plastic for Mobius. Glass is better, but the idea of Mobius was to have less alloy chassis and allow the ereader to bend.a
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Old 01-19-2025, 05:55 AM   #10
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I recently bought an Onyx Boox Page and don't like it at all because the text is ever so slightly fuzzy due to the glass layer on top. The contrast is great, though.
Suggests the etching to reduce reflectance is too coarse, too cheaply done. That makes the screen fuzzier.
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Old 01-19-2025, 07:16 AM   #11
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Suggests the etching to reduce reflectance is too coarse, too cheaply done. That makes the screen fuzzier.
Yeah, could be. I also have a Palma and a Go 10.3. They all use "Onyx Glass" with micro-etching and Carta 1200, so in theory should have the same kind of screen quality, but both the Palma and the Go are much sharper.

But maybe they perfected the technology after the Page was released...
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Old 01-19-2025, 07:56 AM   #12
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But maybe they perfected the technology after the Page was released...
It's not their tech. It's pre-eink tech. You get what you pay for. They don't make the glass.

In theory making glass matt with acid rather than coarse abrasion (no good for screens) might date back to 1771!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrof...chant,_cleaner

I've used Hydrofluoric acid to clean silicon wafers, but having a controlled micro-etch on glass much finer than the 300 dpi screen isn't simple. I've seen uncontrolled glass etching. Don't ask
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Old 01-30-2025, 10:17 PM   #13
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He's a Youtube reviewer, not an expert on measurements of reflectance, brightness, contrast and sharpness.
You need specialist gear AND the training to use it.

Also there are a huge varieties of paper and techniques for printing it. I was saw a lab in the section of a pharmaceutical company that was used to check the quality of the print and packaging.

Not only do you need all the gear, training and experience, but controlled and calibrated lighting.

I've found almost all YouTube reviews appalling compared to classic era Tomorrow's World, Horizon, and Panorama before the BBC lost it's values for content and production, though they are still better than random YouTubers.
I find him one of the best technical reviewers there is. He can be a bit lenient at times, and he does have favourites, but he is fair, precise and thorough. His process isn't fully developed yet, but it shows real promise.
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Old 02-04-2025, 08:00 AM   #14
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Reviews are good, but the bottom line for me is that the Go6 with Carta 1300 is better than the Poke5 with Carta 1200. (Although apparently some late-model Poke5's had 1300.)
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