EU Piracy Report

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by darryl

The law and morality are of course often if not mostly two different things.
...
The view that copyright holders can do anything they like stems from the view that a copyright is the same as physical property. Morally, at least in my view, copyrights are subject to the overriding purpose for which they are granted. When this is essentially making more books available I find it hard to construe as moral the withholding of such books.

Very nice post and summery. I would tend to quibble about the idea that ignoring the T&C on a click through is the same as lying, but all in all, not much to disagree with.

[DiapDealer]

I agree. You guys have come up with rationalizations that keep you from feeling icky about your shady dealings, as have I. We've just not reconciled our differing personal moral codes, nor convinced anyone that theirs is less "correct."

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

The bookseller did not forbid his parents from buying it, even knowing full well that it was not going to live in London for longer than five minutes.

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

That would make buying books to read on holiday somewhat... problamatic
The geo-restriction is the contract between the publisher and seller, limiting where it can be sold by the seller.
After it's been purchased you can take it where you like as there are no location restrictions in your contract with the seller

A question (that I think I already know the answer to): If you take your US-based Kindle (or Kobo) with you on your vacation to Old Blighty, will you then see UK books? I'm assuming that no, you won't. But I am curious.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Personally speaking, my conscience is clear about both buying books from different countries and removing DRM for personal use. In both cases, the author has been paid for the sale, and nobody has lost anything. I have no moral qualms about either activity.

I agree. I remove the DRM for my use and the author gets paid.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

I figure one of the points of copyright is that the author, who probably has a very small window, can exploit his works to the extent provided by law, which includes negotiating the best terms possible geographically. Not buying in the US for $10 but picking up a copy in India for a few cents is not exactly the stuff that makes for a clear conscience.

Shopping in India when the eBook is available in US is not the same as shopping in India or UK to buy an eBook not available in the US. In the first place, it's breaking geo-restrictions to save money. The second is breaking geo-restrictions to buy the eBook so the author can get paid because the eBook is not available in the US.

I don't mind someone breaking geo-restrictions to be able to pay the author.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Apache

I only buy from other markets if I can not get it in the US.
Apache

I would buy from a different country if the version there had some benefit that the local copy didn't.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would buy from a different country if the version there had some benefit that the local copy didn't.

Perhaps a reasonable non-Agency price? Sounds like a great benefit to me!

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by darryl

Perhaps a reasonable non-Agency price? Sounds like a great benefit to me!

Like the few pennies in India mentioned above? Look at me playing Devil's advocate...

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I agree. You guys have come up with rationalizations that keep you from feeling icky about your shady dealings, as have I. We've just not reconciled our differing personal moral codes, nor convinced anyone that theirs is less "correct."

A gracious and accurate post. I'm afraid we're all guilty of rationalising our shady dealings on occasions, myself not excluded. I can't say that I feel at all icky about either drm removal or circumventing geo-restrictions. But of course whether or not one feels icky is not the most reliable indication of whether an action is moral or otherwise, though it may be a useful guide. I've outlined my reasoning as to the morality of both practices. I don't believe that I am rationalising on this occasion but then again I am hardly in the best position to judge. The fact is that I would still support both practices in any event, even if I did believe they were morally wrong. Perhaps partly because they don't make me feel at all icky!

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

A question (that I think I already know the answer to): If you take your US-based Kindle (or Kobo) with you on your vacation to Old Blighty, will you then see UK books? I'm assuming that no, you won't. But I am curious.

You will still see the same selection of books and can still buy them, it being assumed you are on vacation.

Unless you change your registered address to the UK and so see a UK selection. Repeated changes will attract notice but an extra Kindle with a UK or French account works fine.

And folk have reported being prevented from buying more than six or so books while away or being asked to check with Amazon after months away from home.

The Amazon discussion boards used to be full of discussion of means of avoiding Amazon's attention, eg for Brit expatriates in Germany or Spain or German expatriates in Britain. "used to be" because Amazon have dropped them and restarted.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by darryl

Perhaps a reasonable non-Agency price? Sounds like a great benefit to me!

Another reason is that the book may have been "customized" for different markets. This was not uncommon for lesser writers of science fiction in the 1950's. Gollancz often required mods to the text before they published in Britain, for example.

One might want to own both versions for comparison.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

You will still see the same selection of books and can still buy them, it being assumed you are on vacation.

Unless you change your registered address to the UK and so see a UK selection. Repeated changes will attract notice but an extra Kindle with a UK or French account works fine.

And folk have reported being prevented from buying more than six or so books while away or being asked to check with Amazon after months away from home.

The Amazon discussion boards used to be full of discussion of means of avoiding Amazon's attention, eg for Brit expatriates in Germany or Spain or German expatriates in Britain. "used to be" because Amazon have dropped them and restarted.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that was the way it would work.

It does seem funny that if I were in London, I could buy a UK only paperback, but not a UK only ebook. For that matter, you can buy UK only paperbacks on Amazon US. That's how I got Colleen McCullough's Song of Troy, which wasn't published in the US.

That's why I don't care if people 'travel'. I haven't done it myself, but it has more to do with laziness and lack of caring than any moral judgement.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Another reason is that the book may have been "customized" for different markets. This was not uncommon for lesser writers of science fiction in the 1950's. Gollancz often required mods to the text before they published in Britain, for example.

One might want to own both versions for comparison.

That is still happening. Compare the Harry Potter books as published in the UK and Canada to the editions published in the USA. Even the title changed in one case (Philosopher's Stone in UK/Canada, Sorceror's Stone in USA).

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

A question (that I think I already know the answer to): If you take your US-based Kindle (or Kobo) with you on your vacation to Old Blighty, will you then see UK books? I'm assuming that no, you won't. But I am curious.

Dunno, always load the books before I go on holiday

It's probably based on the settings saved in Amazon/Kobo though, so same as you'd see at home I guess.

You can always find an edge case somewhere to break something

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Dunno, always load the books before I go on holiday

It's probably based on the settings saved in Amazon/Kobo though, so same as you'd see at home I guess.

You can always find an edge case somewhere to break something

The books you can buy in the Kobo store are based on the country you have stated you are in in your profile. If you use one of the other stores, you can browse or search for books, but there will be a notice about whether the book is available for purchase.

I'm not sure if about Amazon. I think they use geolocation to add some restrictions, but it might just be based on your profile as well.