The Jim Butcher Files: Dresden . Codex Alera . Cinder Spires & More

[Andy_T]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Mary Sue-ish? Er....I hate to have to ask, but what does that mean?

Haha, me too!
Please explain.

PS: ok, my friend google helped me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by Andy_T

Haha, me too!
Please explain.

PS: ok, my friend google helped me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Your link helped me to understand what was meant. Though it certainly doesn't describe my opinion of the character of Atticus O'Sullivan!! According to what I read there I suppose that if Abtacha thought that about Attacus he might better have called him Marty Stu-ish.

[taosaur]

Falling back on D&D alignments, Atticus is probably Lawful Neutral (lawful within the context of his order, pantheon, and obligations) in contrast to Harry's Chaotic Good. He doesn't lack all empathy for human beings, but his first loyalty is to the Earth, not humanity. Harry would probably see him as a spooky, unpredictable supernatural entity on the order of a moderately powerful Sidhe, moreso than a fellow human magic user. He's not presented as admirable, though perhaps enviable in a Mary Sue-ish fashion; his interactions with women are very much adolescent wish-fulfillment, and of course he has lots of cool powers.

For me the appeal is more about the supporting characters, many of whom happen to be gods from a variety of pantheons. As a lifelong mythology nerd, I just find the scenarios that emerge a lot of fun. I'm not all that invested in Atticus or the other main characters (who are less well-realized and more pulp stereotypes than Butcher's characters), but I enjoy going along for the ride.

For me Iron Druid is much more of a fantasy adventure story, whereas the Dresden Files are more in a horror/occult vein (and IMO at their best when Butcher steers clear of fairy kingdoms and sword fights).

Another difference is that while both series owe a lot to Gaiman's American Gods (and to a lesser extent, his Sandman graphic novels), the Iron Druid universe is more genuinely polytheistic, whereas the Dresden Files are dancing around a basically Catholic worldview. The Carpenters are the paragons of virtue, the best refuge from more or less everything is St. Mary's Cathedral, and Harry is classic witness-bait with his "I'm not good enough for God's love" complex. Such a universe is of course more concerned with good and evil, whereas Atticus frequently points out that he and most of the gods he traffics with are products of the Iron Age, when not even deities were expected to be virtuous or infallible.

[Tarana]

I didn't see your first post, and have just started book 3. I think this supposed effect that wizards have on electrical items is going to be hard for the writer to write around today. Such a person couldn't function at all in a city today. Heck, he couldn't even start his car because of the electric ignition (which has been around since before Dresden Files came into existence. If you are basically a moving EMF field, phones don't work, cars won't work, lighting wherever you go would stop.

It's kindof like the movies - yeah, you know they didn't think it through when writing it, but you just have to pass it off and move forward.

[DocSouth]

Originally Posted by Tarana

I didn't see your first post, and have just started book 3. I think this supposed effect that wizards have on electrical items is going to be hard for the writer to write around today. Such a person couldn't function at all in a city today. Heck, he couldn't even start his car because of the electric ignition (which has been around since before Dresden Files came into existence. If you are basically a moving EMF field, phones don't work, cars won't work, lighting wherever you go would stop.

It's kindof like the movies - yeah, you know they didn't think it through when writing it, but you just have to pass it off and move forward.

Well, from what I gathered when reading them, Harry's field is not a guarantee, it's a variance of complex mechanical objects probability of proper function. I.E. it dramatically increases the likelihood that complex objects will malfunction, but doesn't guarantee it. Hence he drives a vintage VW Beetle with a incredibly simple engine, he uses revolvers instead of semi-automatics, etc. etc. It's not a walking EMP field, just highly increased likelihood. The more complex, the higher the probability. So less likely around indoor plumbing, more likely around a Crey supercomputer.

At least that is how I've always read it.

[Abtacha]

Originally Posted by taosaur

He's not presented as admirable, though perhaps enviable in a Mary Sue-ish fashion; his interactions with women are very much adolescent wish-fulfillment, and of course he has lots of cool powers.

Pretty much this. I don't think Atticus is a clear example of an idolized Author Avatar, but at least at the beginning of the book he seemed a bit too perfect (though not necessarily likeable) and special. Pretty, intelligent/wise, literally capable of destroying his enemies (the Faeris right at the beginning) with a touch, mostly immortal, getting it on with the hot godesses......

The term is something I picked up on TvTropes where it isn't only used to refer to Author Avatar Characters even though it's part of the definition there too.

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Several of you interested me in the Iron Druid series whan it's newest book's release coincided with Cold Days' release date. So I picked up the first one, Hounded, ,and put it on my TBR list. I've just begun it and right now I'm ready to start chapter 5 and instead, I'm considering abandoning it.

I don't like Atticus at all. But I do love the locale. However I don't think an unlikeable protagonist and a familiar and appreciated locale is enough to keep my intrest (keep? I'm not yet interested!).

What m I missing, if anything?

One of the bigger things I enjoy about the book are the secondary characters and how Atticus interacts with them. I'd recommend toughing it out through Chapter 11. If you don't like it by then, you won't like it at all.

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by Rich_D

One of the bigger things I enjoy about the book are the secondary characters and how Atticus interacts with them. I'd recommend toughing it out through Chapter 11. If you don't like it by then, you won't like it at all.

Thank you. I might do that. That's why I originally said, "I'm considering abandoning it."

[alansplace]

Book Talk #13: Series by Jim Butcher & Timothy Zahn

[alansplace]

Quoted from jim-butcher.com.

Jan 15, 2013 ‘Ghoul Goblin’ Dresden Files Comic and Fate Core Kickstarter

Two quick bites of news from the Jim-Sphere today, folks!

First up: a new Dresden Files comic book series has started just this past week — Ghoul Goblin #1 is on sale now! Here’s the skinny:

“GHOUL GOBLIN is an original comic series set in the official Dresden Files continuity! Harry Dresden has survived the events of Fool Moon– barely– but all is not well in his world. He’s still alienated from his closest friend, Karrin Murphy, and on exceedingly poor terms with Chicago’s number one gangster, John Marcone. And that’s just the small stuff– the creatures of the Nevernever don’t take vacations and aren’t particularly worried about Harry’s friendships or love life. DOWNLOAD GHOUL GOBLIN #1 NOW AT COMIXOLOGY OR GO TO YOUR LOCAL COMICS SHOP TODAY!”

And secondly, Evil Hat Productions, the publishers of the Dresden Files Role-Playing Game, are having a run-away blow-out success with their Kickstarter campaign for the next evolution of the Fate system. If you’re of a gamerish bent, check out the Fate Core kickstarter today — it ends on the 29th.

[taosaur]

Just finished up Cold Days, and it was enjoyable enough. It felt like it was more about setting up situations/roles for the series going forward, whereas standing on its own merits against the other books it was just okay.

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by Tarana

I didn't see your first post, and have just started book 3. I think this supposed effect that wizards have on electrical items is going to be hard for the writer to write around today. Such a person couldn't function at all in a city today. Heck, he couldn't even start his car because of the electric ignition (which has been around since before Dresden Files came into existence. If you are basically a moving EMF field, phones don't work, cars won't work, lighting wherever you go would stop.

It's kindof like the movies - yeah, you know they didn't think it through when writing it, but you just have to pass it off and move forward.

Originally Posted by DocSouth

Well, from what I gathered when reading them, Harry's field is not a guarantee, it's a variance of complex mechanical objects probability of proper function. I.E. it dramatically increases the likelihood that complex objects will malfunction, but doesn't guarantee it. Hence he drives a vintage VW Beetle with a incredibly simple engine, he uses revolvers instead of semi-automatics, etc. etc. It's not a walking EMP field, just highly increased likelihood. The more complex, the higher the probability. So less likely around indoor plumbing, more likely around a Crey supercomputer.

At least that is how I've always read it.

Butcher certainly did think this problem through very early on. Throughout the 14 novels and the assorted short stories I've read he has been very consistent and true to the concept. Harry's very aware of this and can even use the effect to his advantage as he can concentrate on a device and burn it out or avoid doing so by not getting too close and getting past the particular item quickly. Also the effect varies depending on the complexity of the item and the magical power of the individual practitioner causing the effect. Harry is also very aware of this aspect as it pertains to him personally.

[John F]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Butcher certainly did think this problem through very early on. Throughout the 14 novels and the assorted short stories I've read he has been very consistent and true to the concept. Harry's very aware of this and can even use the effect to his advantage as he can concentrate on a device and burn it out or avoid doing so by not getting too close and getting past the particular item quickly. Also the effect varies depending on the complexity of the item and the magical power of the individual practitioner causing the effect. Harry is also very aware of this aspect as it pertains to him personally.

Doesn't it also depend on his mood (the madder he gets, more likely something electronically will go wrong)?

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by John F

Doesn't it also depend on his mood (the madder he gets, more likely something electronically will go wrong)?

Yep, that too is a factor. I just didn't think of it at the time I was typing my last post.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Yep, that too is a factor. I just didn't think of it at the time I was typing my last post.

Plus, don't forget, Harry can disable all ill-effects completely. At the slight cost of requiring a lot of energy and willpower. I love it when either one of them finally fail, and things go boom in a big way.