Foxit eSlick to suport ePub in Firmware 2.0 - Page 2

Hellmark · 11-09-2009, 10:12 AM

Breech of contract, possibly, but not "breech of copyright", especially not if it was an individual, who got the firmware on their own. Only exception would be if some other company was distributing it, without permission.

DaleDe · 11-09-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Breech of contract, possibly, but not "breech of copyright", especially not if it was an individual, who got the firmware on their own. Only exception would be if some other company was distributing it, without permission.

Taking something copyrighted and owned by someone else without permission is a breech of copyright.

pilotbob · 11-09-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Taking something copyrighted and owned by someone else without permission is a breech of copyright.

If I download the eSlick firmware from the eSlick web site... what am I taking without permission?

BOb

DaleDe · 11-09-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

If I download the eSlick firmware from the eSlick web site... what am I taking without permission?

BOb

It permission to download is conditional on using it to update their hardware then it is a violation to use it on someone elses hardware. It do not know if they actually state the purpose is to update their firmware so you would need to check. I would be surprised if they permitted this use since the software is available for sale otherwise for PPC devices.

Dale

pilotbob · 11-09-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It permission to download is conditional on using it to update their hardware then it is a violation to use it on someone elses hardware. It do not know if they actually state the purpose is to update their firmware so you would need to check. I would be surprised if they permitted this use since the software is available for sale otherwise for PPC devices.

Dale

Can you please find the license agreement to the firmeware? I can't seem to find it on tier site.

The "if" only applies "if" I can find any info about it.

Granted, I don't have a Gen3... the question was somewhat academic... but it possible could lead me to possible getting a Gen3 in the future.

BOb

DaleDe · 11-09-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Can you please find the license agreement to the firmeware? I can't seem to find it on tier site.

The "if" only applies "if" I can find any info about it.

Granted, I don't have a Gen3... the question was somewhat academic... but it possible could lead me to possible getting a Gen3 in the future.

BOb

Here is what they say:

Quote:

LICENCE GRANT Foxit grants your company a license to use one copy of the Software on Foxit eSlick. Each License purchased allows you to install 1 copy of the license. "Use" means storing, loading, installing and executing. You agree to use all reasonable efforts to protect the Product from unauthorized use, reproduction, distribution or publication. You may not modify the Software or disable any licensing or control features of the Software in any manner without prior written permission by Foxit.

LICENSE LIMITATIONS You may not copy the Software of the eSlick except for a reasonable number of machine-readable copies of the software for backup or archival purposes and except as expressly permitted in the License Grant section above. You may not remove any titles, trademarks or trade names, copyright notices, legends, or other proprietary markings on the Software. You are not granted any rights to any trademarks or service marks of Foxit. Foxit retains all rights not expressly granted to you.

It would seem they enforce this by requiring you to use a special program to load the firmware. It is a windows executable. I have not tried it but I would expect it is used to ensure that you have a right to use the firmware.

Dale

Hellmark · 11-09-2009, 12:41 PM

Just read the readme that comes with the firmware, as well as the terms on the site, and not one mention of prohibition of using the firmware on anything but a Cybook. It only restricts you from distributing the firmware, or any other part of their website.

On what I've read on the Foxit firmware, there are loopholes to do it anyway, but would require using other ways to get the firmware on to the device. (which is doable)

HarryT · 11-09-2009, 12:43 PM

But if you haven't bought a CyBook, do you have a licence to use the firmware? Isn't the licence a part of the price of the CyBook?

The fact that you can download something doesn't necessarily mean that it's OK to do so.

DaleDe · 11-09-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Just read the readme that comes with the firmware, as well as the terms on the site, and not one mention of prohibition of using the firmware on anything but a Cybook. It only restricts you from distributing the firmware, or any other part of their website.

On what I've read on the Foxit firmware, there are loopholes to do it anyway, but would require using other ways to get the firmware on to the device. (which is doable)

Cybook requires a customer registered login to even get to download their firmware in the first place. I do not know what the license says.

Foxit clearly prohibits it and circumvention is a violation of the copyright as I said in the beginning.

Dale

Hellmark · 11-09-2009, 01:00 PM

It says you're to not modify the software, or disable the licensing or control features. You don't have to modify or disable things, to get it running.

Also, it would be violations of terms of use, and not copyright. There is a technical difference.

pilotbob · 11-09-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Just read the readme that comes with the firmware, as well as the terms on the site, and not one mention of prohibition of using the firmware on anything but a Cybook. It only restricts you from distributing the firmware, or any other part of their website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But if you haven't bought a CyBook, do you have a licence to use the firmware? Isn't the licence a part of the price of the CyBook?

Ok, I think you guys got it backward. I was wondering if the eSlick firmware will run on the CyBook hardware.

What if I own both devices....

Anyway... it was a TECHNICAL and academic question, not a legal one.

BOb

DaleDe · 11-09-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

It says you're to not modify the software, or disable the licensing or control features. You don't have to modify or disable things, to get it running.

Also, it would be violations of terms of use, and not copyright. There is a technical difference.

They can't even specify terms of use if they don't have a copyright, but this is splitting hairs. It is always terms of use you violate whenever you violate a copyright.

Dale

HarryT · 11-09-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Anyway... it was a TECHNICAL and academic question, not a legal one.

BOb

Technically, the issue is, I believe, that each of the Netronix clones has its own boot-loader which will only detect its "own" firmware files as legit reflash files, so you can't reflash a Gen3 with, say, Cool-ER firmware because the Gen3 will simply not recognise the Cool-ER file as a file that it should try to reflash with.

Hellmark · 11-09-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

They can't even specify terms of use if they don't have a copyright, but this is splitting hairs. It is always terms of use you violate whenever you violate a copyright.

If no terms of use are given for a copyrighted work, and you use it without permission, you're not in violation of terms of use, just strictly copyright infringement.

Pilotbob, I was looking at both devices, for the possibility that Cybook would not want you to run anything but official cybook firmware.

DaleDe · 11-09-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

If no terms of use are given for a copyrighted work, and you use it without permission, you're not in violation of terms of use, just strictly copyright infringement.

There are always terms of use defining what you can do with a copyrighted work. If the copyright owner fails to spell them out then the defaults defined by the applicable law apply. It is not as simple as just permission. When you purchase a book you get a certain amount of implied permission but that does not extend to making and publishing copies or even quoting huge quantities of the work. These limitations are set down by the law and may be further defined by the author/copyright holder. Generally an author can not be more restrictive than the law allows but may be less restrict, hence creative commons license.

Dale

11-09-2009, 12:41 PM	#22
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	Just read the readme that comes with the firmware, as well as the terms on the site, and not one mention of prohibition of using the firmware on anything but a Cybook. It only restricts you from distributing the firmware, or any other part of their website. On what I've read on the Foxit firmware, there are loopholes to do it anyway, but would require using other ways to get the firmware on to the device. (which is doable) Last edited by Hellmark; 11-09-2009 at 12:43 PM.

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11-09-2009, 10:12 AM	#16
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	Breech of contract, possibly, but not "breech of copyright", especially not if it was an individual, who got the firmware on their own. Only exception would be if some other company was distributing it, without permission.

11-09-2009, 12:43 PM	#23
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	But if you haven't bought a CyBook, do you have a licence to use the firmware? Isn't the licence a part of the price of the CyBook? The fact that you can download something doesn't necessarily mean that it's OK to do so.

11-09-2009, 01:00 PM	#25
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	It says you're to not modify the software, or disable the licensing or control features. You don't have to modify or disable things, to get it running. Also, it would be violations of terms of use, and not copyright. There is a technical difference.