What's with the Paranoia?

[JSWolf]

You have to create an account someplace if you buy even a single eBook. If you buy with DRM, you have to have a registered account with either Adobe or Amazon depending on what you are buying. ePub with DRM needs two accounts. One at the store and one at Adobe for use with ADE. eBooks from Amazon need an account as Amazon.

You don't need an Adobe account if you buy ePub without DRM such as from Tor or Star Trek eBooks.

So chances are that you will have to register somewhere and give your data. I cannot see anyone just reading public domain eBooks that are free and do not require an account. Even with Overdrive you might need two accounts. One with Overdrive and Adobe or Amazon (if in the US).

Is there anyone reading this thread who does not have an account with some company for buying eBooks?

[hollowpoint]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread and haven't been able to be on the forum much lately. But...seeing the OP's question in 2021...

Privacy is no small matter. Sometimes I wonder if folks who don't care or don't worry about an online bookstore or organization like a library having your purchase/reading/rental history (along with in some cases, your annotations and similar metadata, in the case of platforms like Kindle), have really thought this through. I used to be one of those folks (with regard to our reading data), but recent history has changed my mind. Now, I think we have to consider privacy even about our reading habits.

In the age of cancel culture, 'doxing' people, and 'outing' people, we all have a lot to lose. Say that you are a devout leftist, progressive, whatever, and you read lots of books consistent with that type of world view. Maybe you even read books by some radical revolutionaries about the need to 'reset the system,' and even HOW to go about that, what YOU can do to participate and help accelerate that. Today, you're not worried because some of the dominant cultural institutions like the media, the Federal government, etc., don't seem to care about people having those interests as they did at some points in the past, and you think you'll be fine.

But project down the road a few years. There have been plenty of pendulum swings in cultural history, you know. Maybe somebody who's hostile to your point of view comes into power, and now views people with your viewpoint as 'dangerous', as potential 'domestic terrorists', and people who need to be surveilled.

As they quickly bypass privacy laws in your country, begin to ramp up universal surveillance and tear apart your digital life, why would they NOT want to consider things like your online habits, the news you consume, the video you watch, the comments you post, and the books you read? Does the reading data not give useful data into someone's intellectual habits and potential beliefs?

I think we ALL have a LOT to lose when we casually give up our privacy. In 2021, I don't think it's paranoid AT ALL to give some consideration to whether you want your reading data to be kept private. Anything that you do online, including reading, can and will be surveilled, and can and WILL be used against you in the future if you say something, read something, or do something, that whoever's in power doesn't like.

I'm not suggesting going all tinfoil hat and living in a cave, or not utilizing the modern cloud. But taking some reasonable steps to research and possibly anonymize one's purchases and online habits to a degree, seems worthwhile to me. And if you're really concerned about it, I have a few friends who've gone 'analog' in some aspects of life, for instance getting off of social media and going back to print books. For me, I probably wouldn't go that far but am looking at ways to anonymize transactions and other things.

[Quoth]

The only anonymous way to buy books is cash and spread purchases over very many physical bookshops.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by hollowpoint

Privacy is no small matter. Sometimes I wonder if folks who don't care or don't worry about an online bookstore or organization like a library having your purchase/reading/rental history (along with in some cases, your annotations and similar metadata, in the case of platforms like Kindle), have really thought this through.

Yes, I have. I'm not interested in politics or anything serious really and read only genre fiction, like SF, fantasy, mysteries etc. The day genre fiction is declared illegal is the day I'm going to step off the Earth, so I won't care then either. As to cancel culture, I couldn't care less what random strangers think of me and my habits. Chances are I won't even learn about their opinions, as I don't use any social media at all, and the only forum I visit is MR.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Yes, I have. I'm not interested in politics or anything serious really and read only genre fiction, like SF, fantasy, mysteries etc. The day genre fiction is declared illegal is the day I'm going to step off the Earth, so I won't care then either. As to cancel culture, I couldn't care less what random strangers think of me and my habits. Chances are I won't even learn about their opinions, as I don't use any social media at all, and the only forum I visit is MR.

I can think of three major concerns with regards to privacy. First is to prevent fraud, i.e. you don't want someone using your credit card or applying for a credit card with your identity. Second, you don't want your friends, family and neighbors to know about certain activities or purchases. Third, you don't what the powers that be tracking what you are doing.

One issue with the cancel culture (or the powers that be tracking you) that you may not be considering is mis-identification. Here in the US, there are plenty of people who find themselves on the no fly list because they have the same name as someone else. For that matter, there are a number of cases where the cancel culture has doxed the wrong person. Not much you can do from a privacy point of view about that, but it would be a real pain if it happened to you.

IMPO, the biggest issue with the powers that be is bad profiling. Maybe they assume that anyone buying Zombie Apocalypse books is some right wing survivalist and is a danger. Or maybe they think that anyone who buys ammo and freeze dried foods is a right wing survivalist. Maybe you searched for QAnon to see what everyone was talking about.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I can think of three major concerns with regards to privacy. First is to prevent fraud, i.e. you don't want someone using your credit card or applying for a credit card with your identity. Second, you don't want your friends, family and neighbors to know about certain activities or purchases. Third, you don't what the powers that be tracking what you are doing.

Well, I don't care about the second and the third. As to the first, registering your ereader is hardly the most likely option out there to fall victim to fraud or have your identity stolen. Using a bank card, buying things online etc. are all far more likely to cause this, but almost everyone does these things. And don't get me started on all the evils of social media, which I frankly detest, yet everyone else seems to love for reasons incomprehensible to me, privacy concerns notwithstanding.

Frankly, I don't care whether people register their readers or not. But some reasons they give for not registering seem pretty funny to me, considering everything else they use and do.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I can think of three major concerns with regards to privacy. First is to prevent fraud, i.e. you don't want someone using your credit card or applying for a credit card with your identity. Second, you don't want your friends, family and neighbors to know about certain activities or purchases. Third, you don't what the powers that be tracking what you are doing.

One issue with the cancel culture (or the powers that be tracking you) that you may not be considering is mis-identification. Here in the US, there are plenty of people who find themselves on the no fly list because they have the same name as someone else. For that matter, there are a number of cases where the cancel culture has doxed the wrong person. Not much you can do from a privacy point of view about that, but it would be a real pain if it happened to you.

IMPO, the biggest issue with the powers that be is bad profiling. Maybe they assume that anyone buying Zombie Apocalypse books is some right wing survivalist and is a danger. Or maybe they think that anyone who buys ammo and freeze dried foods is a right wing survivalist. Maybe you searched for QAnon to see what everyone was talking about.

There is a difference between the type of privacy some here want and keeping your data safe. There's no way to have that level of privacy if you use plastic to buy something. Privacy at that level is a fantasy. It;s not possible while still doing what you want. It just isn't possible. As @Quoth said, you have to buy pBooks and pay in cash. You may as well give up eBooks because as soon as you buy one, your privacy is gone. You need an account even to buy DRM free eBooks. You have to have accounts and/or be registered to buy eBooks.

You cannot get away from having your data available on some server someplace. The companies you get your gas/electric from has it online. You back does as well. So why is it you will let some companies you do business have a lot more data about you sitting on a serve accessible to the Internet yet you feel registering a Reader is too invasive?

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You cannot get away from having your data available on some server someplace. The companies you get your gas/electric from has it online. You back does as well. So why is it you will let some companies you do business have a lot more data about you sitting on a serve accessible to the Internet yet you feel registering a Reader is too invasive?

This is the equivalent of arguing you have to unlock your door sometimes so why lock it at all. Yes you do have to give some information to some people, you do not and should not have to give it to anyone who asks just because they ask. There is no service that any ereader company provides that necessitates them having all my information, especially if I am not buying from their eshop.

You keep asking why people don't want to give out their information, but in countless posts in countless threads beyond just this one (as you regularly challenge anyone seeking not to register their Kobo) have never given a good reason for why they should give their information over.

You've tried "if you skip registering it'll potentially cost you all your books", which falls flat on its face when you consider that anyone not registering is also not buying books from Kobo and is in point of fact likely getting the freebies from places that do not require you to register, and so they have a back up. It also ignores that in the history of Kobo there's been, I believe, a single firmware update that changed its directory in such a way that it caused these issues if you had skipped registration. Which is, to me, a fairly minimal risk especially when the group being affected isn't going to lose anything from Kobo aside from reading stats.

You've tried "but you can't use 'x' or 'y' feature", which also falls flat on its face since not all users will care about those features and anyone making the decision to not register while also being smart enough to follow whatever guides are out there to assist them in such endeavors are also smart enough to weigh the pros and cons of if those features are important to them.

[fabricalado]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The only anonymous way to buy books is cash and spread purchases over very many physical bookshops.

Yes, but as hollowpoint was saying, this all-or-nothing mentality ignores a lot of grey areas in between.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Frankly, I don't care whether people register their readers or not. But some reasons they give for not registering seem pretty funny to me, considering everything else they use and do.

This. Yes, I'm super aware of my privacy on the net, I even avoid social media entirely, stay away from shady sites, and am very careful where I give any purchasing info. But I do have to buy books, and since I use an ereader, they do have to be ebooks, which requires purchasing online with your full name, address, and a credit/debit card, PayPal, or some form of payment.

I realize everyone draws their own line at what's too intrusive or not, but after buying books where they have all your info at the same stores that make the ereader, and borrowing from libraries, I just don't see what registering an ereader can provide to those that do tracking that your purchases haven't already given them, making it so dangerous to do. If you didn't do any purchasing online, I'd say that's fine to draw your line there.

[hildea]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

I realize everyone draws their own line at what's too intrusive or not, but after buying books where they have all your info at the same stores that make the ereader, and borrowing from libraries, I just don't see what registering an ereader can provide to those that do tracking that your purchases haven't already given them, making it so dangerous to do. If you didn't do any purchasing online, I'd say that's fine to draw your line there.

It's not complicated: There's a tradeoff between privacy and convenience, and different people make different choices about how much privacy they are willing to part with for how much convenience. To me, it's not that registering an ereader is a much worse loss of privacy than buying books online, it's that the advantages of registering an ereader aren't strong enough for me to be worth any loss of privacy. When buying books, the advantages are a lot bigger, so I give up some privacy in those situations.

It's a pragmatic choice, not an all or nothing situation. (I briefly thought JSWolf understood this earlier in this thread.)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by hildea

It's not complicated: There's a tradeoff between privacy and convenience, and different people make different choices about how much privacy they are willing to part with for how much convenience. To me, it's not that registering an ereader is a much worse loss of privacy than buying books online, it's that the advantages of registering an ereader aren't strong enough for me to be worth any loss of privacy. When buying books, the advantages are a lot bigger, so I give up some privacy in those situations.

It's a pragmatic choice, not an all or nothing situation. (I briefly thought JSWolf understood this earlier in this thread.)

Why would you register KindleForPC and nt register your Kindle?

Why would you register at Adobe to be able to use RMSDK (ADE) with DRM and not register a Kobo?

What is it you are giving away by registering a Reader vs registering to be able to read/buy eBooks with DRM?

[hildea]

Try rereading my last post, I answered there. Or for that matter, try rereading the post I linked to. English isn't my first language, and I'm aware it shows, but I don't think my posts are completely incomprehensible

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by hildea

Try rereading my last post, I answered there. Or for that matter, try rereading the post I linked to. English isn't my first language, and I'm aware it shows, but I don't think my posts are completely incomprehensible

By registering a Reader, what privacy do you feel you lose?

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

By registering a Reader, what privacy do you feel you lose?

Jon; I've not paid close attention to all replies but probably there is a concern from folks that they don't want to risk sharing side-loaded content (maybe of questionable origin, or controversial content) with the eReader's supplier.