What's with the Paranoia?

[i.am.stack]

Originally Posted by crich70

how many worry about what the apps on their cell phones may be telling others?

I do. I've put a capture packet on a brand new out-of-the-box Android and watched it talk to servers all over the world as it immediately began connecting to weird services. It's amazing how many systems it talked to and how much data was transmitted just sitting there on the desk for a week.

That's why I only buy devices I can put LineageOS on and it is really good about not being chatty on the network. I'm also not dumb enough to put any random app nor any social media app on my phone/tablet.

That's the way it should be. It should always be the consumers choice first.

Originally Posted by crich70

Or the preferred customer cards that grocery stores provide for their customers. The barcode on those links to your account so that the store knows a lot about you if you think about it

What's great about those is that the vast majority of the time they don't care who has a card or who uses it. And they do almost no checking or verification on any of it either. My friends and family have always signed up some random name at some random address and then we all group use it. Really messes with their metrics. Especially if you use cash to pay.

Originally Posted by crich70

and for that matter the GPS in your car can also be used to see if you were anywhere near the scene of the crime (so to speak).

Another reason to opt out of those things. And if you can't, rip out the plug. Only use the GPS from a trusted device. Like a LineageOS Android that won't rat on you. It's not hard to do.

Originally Posted by crich70

With all that why worry about what a humble little ereader could be doing?

Yeah, what's another cup of water to a man already drowning? Except some of us are willing to take just a little bit of precaution and do a little bit of diligence to not to be in that situation.

Then again, if I wanted to watch dancing pigs I'd put in a Muppet Show DVD. The sad reality is most computer users won't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_pigs

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by gmw

I agree that it would be somewhat irrational to worry about one and not the others. As I indicated in a post much earlier in the thread, I try to make a habit of minimal sharing (even/especially on my phone). eg: almost no site truly needs a date of birth, so don't ask me for it, and if you insist don't be surprised when I lie. Etc. etc. for all the myriad other things that many sites want to know out of a sort of habit/reflex rather than real need*.

* I'm in the business of building databases for businesses, so I know just how much crap some businesses store versus how little of it they actually need and use. I mean, at least when Google and Amazon take your data they will make active [ab]use of it, many smaller businesses just hoard it while waiting to be hacked.

Compared to what people share on social media of their own free will, most other data is pretty small fry.

I don't use social media. That's some minimal sharing right there. As to the rest, I need to live, and I want to live comfortably. Speed and convenience are more important to me than total privacy. I would never use cash and shop only in physical stores, for example. Many books I want to read come with DRM, which requires registering. And so on. I'm not the type to make my life more difficult on account of principles. So I use Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc., because their services are good, fast and convenient. And I prioritize that over privacy.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

[...] So I use Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc., because their services are good, fast and convenient. And I prioritize that over privacy.

Yep, and lots of people do. If anything, I'm the odd one out, not you. That weight of numbers means the big companies are not going change their minds and start caring more about security and privacy because there's nothing in it for them.

I'd also add that I, too, use the fast and convenient services of Google and Microsoft (but not Amazon so much, I sell through them but I don't buy through them). I'm just careful about how much I tell them, and I am even more careful about how I let different services mix (what gets to "talk" to Google and vice versa). So it's not an either/or problem. It's just a matter of taking some personal responsibility for my information.

[kyrilson]

Echoing Sirtel, I also don’t personally know anyone that has been a victim of identity theft. I know it happens, but it hasn’t happened to anyone I know. The things I do: I have a different password on each website I use, and don’t leave credit card info on sites, and use Adblock, and also turn off a bunch of tracking stuff, location, personalized ads, etc. on my iPhone and iPad but otherwise I don’t really go overboard with the privacy stuff. I probably do more than the average person does, but I’m sure some of my stuff gets through the cracks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

How much chance is there of that happening, compared to the chance of getting robbed or broken in? I think infinitesimal. I don't know anyone who has ever had issues with their data or privacy. Absolutely no one.

I've not heard of anyone having data privacy issues with Amazon, Google, Kobo, Apple, and eBooks.com due to anything done by these companies.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by gmw

I don't have stats to compare the odds, but I do know a few of people that have experienced identity theft difficulties (personal or financial or both). And, for myself, I've had my credit card details used on multiple occasions (in two separate incidents some years apart) in circumstances that strongly suggest it occurred as the result of an online transaction rather than face-to-face - meaning the details were stolen, or sold, or given away from an online site. (It may even have been the same site both times if my suspicions are correct, but I have no proof and there are no matching reports of data theft in the databases I've checked.)

I guess only two incidents over a couple of decades isn't that big a deal, but I am very careful with where I use a credit card online so all I can really say is that if you have not seen such incidents then: lucky you.

This is why you should use different passwords on every account and n password should be a variation of another password. That way if you find out that a site gets hacked, you only need to change your password once.

[Sirtel]

I use PayPal where possible. And bank transfer in local stores. But where it's not possible to use other methods, I do leave my card number. Moreover, I use several subscription services. Netflix, Dropbox, Prime Video, Adobe Photoshop, Google Drive 100 GB (for Gmail) and more. Not all of them have PayPal as a payment option, so I have to keep my card info there.

I'm sure many people live perfectly well without using any subscription services. So what? I want to use them and I do. I'm willing to take a security risk to do that. (Yes, I know Dropbox and Adobe, to name but two, have had data leaks.)

[John F]

Amazon leaks/breaches:

https://firewalltimes.com/amazon-data-breach-timeline/

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by John F

Amazon leaks/breaches:

https://firewalltimes.com/amazon-data-breach-timeline/

Yeah, yeah. I'm aware of most of those. Old news.

As I said, I'm willing to take a risk to live more comfortably. What can I say, I'm a hard-boiled hedonist.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

...

I'm sure many people live perfectly well without using any subscription services. So what? I want to use them and I do. I'm willing to take a security risk to do that. (Yes, I know Dropbox and Adobe, to name but two, have had data leaks.)

Probably easier to list the companies that haven't been hacked (but then maybe we/they don't know)?

If you often use Gmail, Netflix and LinkedIn, read this carefully. A huge online leak has exposed billions of logins.

https://www.zeebiz.com/technology/ap...-online-149354

But hey, it was early 2021, so it's old news.

[JSWolf]

Not a single breach has caused me any problems except maybe more spam.

But if I do read about a breach on a site I use, I will change my password. Then the old password won't be of any use as it's not used anywhere else.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This is why you should use different passwords on every account and n password should be a variation of another password. That way if you find out that a site gets hacked, you only need to change your password once.

While this is good advice it has nothing to do with the circumstances described. I do indeed use different passwords for different sites, but once a site has been compromised and credit card (and other) details are stolen those details can be used again again. At least the credit card I can cancel, other private details are not so easy to reset, which is why I keep those to details to a minimum.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I use PayPal where possible. And bank transfer in local stores. But where it's not possible to use other methods, I do leave my card number. Moreover, I use several subscription services. Netflix, Dropbox, Prime Video, Adobe Photoshop, Google Drive 100 GB (for Gmail) and more. Not all of them have PayPal as a payment option, so I have to keep my card info there.

I'm sure many people live perfectly well without using any subscription services. So what? I want to use them and I do. I'm willing to take a security risk to do that. (Yes, I know Dropbox and Adobe, to name but two, have had data leaks.)

That is what I was saying above, being careful does not mean you cannot use these services - I can and do use several of these.

Using different passwords for everywhere is good advice, but goes directly against your earlier proclamation of "because their services are good, fast and convenient. And I prioritize that over privacy." Fast and convenient would be the same same easy to remember password everywhere, but we don't do that because it's stupid. So we might use a password manager, but finding one to work smoothly between all our devices is not easy - so even here convenience is being sacrificed for security and privacy.

Like you, I use Paypal where I can - but since the second time my credit card details were stolen I now take this to another level where I basically refuse to purchase from sites that don't support Paypal (eg: I can't do pre-ordering from Kobo, but I can make normal purchases there). There are a very small number of exceptions (currently 3) - stuff important enough for me to take that risk. And for a few things I've worked out that gift cards can be used to get me around site limitations (I think someone mentioned this earlier).

There are many parts to this and we all draw the line at different places. But it's certainly possible to use many online services without giving away all your details. The trade-offs you are willing to make for particular sites or services will be different to mine, but it's a continuum - not an all or nothing thing. And once people realise that, they can begin to take additional small steps to improve their privacy without greatly affecting what is available to them.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by gmw

While this is good advice it has nothing to do with the circumstances described. I do indeed use different passwords for different sites, but once a site has been compromised and credit card (and other) details are stolen those details can be used again again. At least the credit card I can cancel, other private details are not so easy to reset, which is why I keep those to details to a minimum.

That is what I was saying above, being careful does not mean you cannot use these services - I can and do use several of these.

Using different passwords for everywhere is good advice, but goes directly against your earlier proclamation of "because their services are good, fast and convenient. And I prioritize that over privacy." Fast and convenient would be the same same easy to remember password everywhere, but we don't do that because it's stupid. So we might use a password manager, but finding one to work smoothly between all our devices is not easy - so even here convenience is being sacrificed for security and privacy.

You were not telling others not to use Google, Amazon, Windows and so on, of course. Another poster did that. My reply that I don't particularly care about privacy or the reputation of these companies was more to that poster than to you.

And of course I don't care so much that I would stop using them. And yes, I value speed and convenience over privacy, but using the same passwords everywhere is like leaving your home door wide open. It might be much faster and more convenient, but downright stupid to do so. So you're right that most of us draw the line somewhere.

It's the extreme privacy advocates (never buy ebooks, never use the services of any big bad companies etc) that really irk me. Especially if they tell others to do the same.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by gmw

So we might use a password manager, but finding one to work smoothly between all our devices is not easy - so even here convenience is being sacrificed for security and privacy.

If you're referring to the stunt LastPass pulled earlier this year, I suggest looking into Bitwarden.

[JSWolf]

I use Firefox to manage my passwords. It works on my computers, iPhone, and iPad.