Newbie Questions (I'm confused!)

[SUeMichele]

Hi all,

Let me first just say I'm just a newbie to Sigil, but I'm a bona fide geek from way back, former GEnie-ite, and I've had the same email addy for like 15 years. So I am by no means new to boards and such. Basically I'm a writer who has had to figure tech stuff out along the way just to get stuff done. I say this so you'll know I have some clue as to getting around in this, our digital world, but it's kind of a haphazard education, IYKWIM.

So I was on a board looking for some missing fanfic that I was converting to .mobi in order to get rid of a box of hard copies I had found after moving, and someone recommended Sigil and Calibre. Now, Calibre, in my quick estimation, looks a lot like an iTunes for ebooks, which is fine, but not so much with the conversion, as far as I can tell (and by this I mean .doc or .txt or .htm to .mobi, not from one ebook format to another).

I am looking for something to fill two basic needs:
1. to convert files I already have (.doc, .txt, .htm) in fanfic and regular fic, written by others for my enjoyment, or by others for me to read and make suggestions, or even edit. Now that I have a Kindle (the keyboard one), I find it much easier and less annoying than printing stuff out on actual paper (not to mention space-saving!), which is what I have done in the past.

2. to import and convert my *own* writing, to send to others for their perusal/suggestions/editing, as well as to eventually self-publish. (Or even to convert my own writing so *I* can read it and remember where I was, make notes, etc.)

I'm on a Windows PC, btw, brand-new, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Up until now I've been using an online conversion site, which does pretty well, but it's nothing I would trust to edit my own professional work for release, as it has some weird glitches (fine when reading fanfic, but you don't want stuff sold that drops the second L in a word with two L's in a row, for no apparent reason; it's simply not adequate for professional purposes, obviously).

However, I don't really see a way in Sigil to import any files from .doc or .txt formats.

Does this application do such things? I have to admit, though I could probably, *eventually* figure out if and how such a thing is intended to be done with Sigil, I just want to know if it's doable, and maybe find some step-by-steps as to how to import what I've got and then continue on from there. Or even just to convert it to .mobi, make my edits/continue writing in Word or whatever, then just reconvert another version when I'm ready . . . whichever. (Yeah, I used to write .html by hand, so I'm not incapable, but after a lot of Real Life Crap I admit I no longer have the patience for such things; isn't that what these sorts of apps are for? I just don't want to sit and do all that manually until and unless it's absolutely necessary, IYKWIM.)

So I guess long story short, I first want to know if this is the program I'm looking for, and if not, what is?

Sorry to go on so much, but now you've got the basic story.

Anyone? Help?

Thanks!

SUeMichele

[theducks]

Originally Posted by SUeMichele

Hi all,

Let me first just say I'm just a newbie to Sigil, but I'm a bona fide geek from way back, former GEnie-ite, and I've had the same email addy for like 15 years. So I am by no means new to boards and such. Basically I'm a writer who has had to figure tech stuff out along the way just to get stuff done. I say this so you'll know I have some clue as to getting around in this, our digital world, but it's kind of a haphazard education, IYKWIM.

So I was on a board looking for some missing fanfic that I was converting to .mobi in order to get rid of a box of hard copies I had found after moving, and someone recommended Sigil and Calibre. Now, Calibre, in my quick estimation, looks a lot like an iTunes for ebooks, which is fine, but not so much with the conversion, as far as I can tell (and by this I mean .doc or .txt or .htm to .mobi, not from one ebook format to another).

I am looking for something to fill two basic needs:
1. to convert files I already have (.doc, .txt, .htm) in fanfic and regular fic, written by others for my enjoyment, or by others for me to read and make suggestions, or even edit. Now that I have a Kindle (the keyboard one), I find it much easier and less annoying than printing stuff out on actual paper (not to mention space-saving!), which is what I have done in the past.

2. to import and convert my *own* writing, to send to others for their perusal/suggestions/editing, as well as to eventually self-publish. (Or even to convert my own writing so *I* can read it and remember where I was, make notes, etc.)

I'm on a Windows PC, btw, brand-new, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Up until now I've been using an online conversion site, which does pretty well, but it's nothing I would trust to edit my own professional work for release, as it has some weird glitches (fine when reading fanfic, but you don't want stuff sold that drops the second L in a word with two L's in a row, for no apparent reason; it's simply not adequate for professional purposes, obviously).

However, I don't really see a way in Sigil to import any files from .doc or .txt formats.

Does this application do such things? I have to admit, though I could probably, *eventually* figure out if and how such a thing is intended to be done with Sigil, I just want to know if it's doable, and maybe find some step-by-steps as to how to import what I've got and then continue on from there. Or even just to convert it to .mobi, make my edits/continue writing in Word or whatever, then just reconvert another version when I'm ready . . . whichever. (Yeah, I used to write .html by hand, so I'm not incapable, but after a lot of Real Life Crap I admit I no longer have the patience for such things; isn't that what these sorts of apps are for? I just don't want to sit and do all that manually until and unless it's absolutely necessary, IYKWIM.)

So I guess long story short, I first want to know if this is the program I'm looking for, and if not, what is?

Sorry to go on so much, but now you've got the basic story.

Anyone? Help?

Thanks!

SUeMichele

I like to use the Open Office plugin Writer2EPUB to convert DOC (calibre won't convert DOC)

Calibre will convert TXT files. You may need to fuss with the TXT conversion settings.
Preferences is used for First time (book) conversion, then you can fine tune on the individual book conversion screen (settings, once used are sticky to the book)

Then touch up with Sigil

[SUeMichele]

Originally Posted by theducks

I like to use the Open Office plugin Writer2EPUB to convert DOC (calibre won't convert DOC)

Calibre will convert TXT files. You may need to fuss with the TXT conversion settings.
Preferences is used for First time (book) conversion, then you can fine tune on the individual book conversion screen (settings, once used are sticky to the book)

Then touch up with Sigil

Thanks for the reply, theducks.

So . . . what's the point of using Sigil if I can't go from .doc to .mobi or other formats? I don't get it.

Isn't there a *simple* program that will convert from various word processing formats to various ebook formats? There *must* be something, somewhere! This seems like a lot of converting going on until I get where I want to go. Not to say I haven't done that in the past (app 1 only has this format, and my stuff is there, but in order to get it to app 2, I have to go through 2 others in between, and each one introduces its own glitches, but when you're desperate, you're desperate), I just don't think that's the best use of my time as a writer. I don't get paid for all the time it takes me to get from one format to another.

Are there any writers around here who might have suggestions? You can get some great writing apps and great script apps, each of which have excellent writing and editing features (cards, corkboards, organization, etc.), but they don't seem to export into anything useful as far as ebooks go. I really shouldn't be writing in one place, converting to something else to import, then edit each format of ebook, exporting it for upload. It's actually painful just to think about. There has to be a better way!

Right? <She said, hopefully.>

[Serpentine]

Sigil is for editing, it's not for converting.
calibre is for book management - part of which is conversion.

If you just want to convert, use calibre, should the results from calibre have any problem that can not be fixed by playing with settings; Then you can use an epub generated in calibre and edit in Sigil to better meet your needs, from there you can then export as mobi etc,.

If you are writing - Word or Writer should be good enough, you are able to export as reasonable (x)html, which can be converted to epub rather easily - if you're only using a single tool, it's often easy to write a bunch of regex to take care of common errors. Jutoh is also fairly good as an all-rounder, however it's not going to be as handy as a fully featured word-processor.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by SUeMichele

Thanks for the reply, theducks.

So . . . what's the point of using Sigil if I can't go from .doc to .mobi or other formats? I don't get it.

Isn't there a *simple* program that will convert from various word processing formats to various ebook formats? There *must* be something, somewhere! This seems like a lot of converting going on until I get where I want to go. Not to say I haven't done that in the past (app 1 only has this format, and my stuff is there, but in order to get it to app 2, I have to go through 2 others in between, and each one introduces its own glitches, but when you're desperate, you're desperate), I just don't think that's the best use of my time as a writer. I don't get paid for all the time it takes me to get from one format to another.

Are there any writers around here who might have suggestions? You can get some great writing apps and great script apps, each of which have excellent writing and editing features (cards, corkboards, organization, etc.), but they don't seem to export into anything useful as far as ebooks go. I really shouldn't be writing in one place, converting to something else to import, then edit each format of ebook, exporting it for upload. It's actually painful just to think about. There has to be a better way!

Right? <She said, hopefully.>

As Serpentine wrote, Sigil is not a "conversion program." There aren't any silver bullet, one-stop-shop, word-processing all-in-one conversion programs out there. The closest you can get would be Jutoh, which is "Word-like," but based on odt. It's not free. Nor is Scrivener, another writing program which has export to both mobi and epub--at least, it does for this 5 minutes. What will happen once KindleGen2 is out is anyone's guess.

As to why you, or anyone else, would be better off with Sigil? For those of us in the business, or who want to make a professional-quality ePUB, really, it's the only game in town, period. Nothing else really comes close, and I know, I've used them all. Not Scrivener, not Jutoh, not Bookbin, and CERTAINLY not any browser-based program comes close.

You are probably best off with Calibre, which works reasonably well on a multitiude of formats, for your own personal reading library and fanfic and something like Jutoh for heavier lifting (for distribution), the latter of which is closest to a word-processing-conversion experience. Some like Atlantis Word Processor, which has an export-to-ePUB plugin. My company uses NoteTabPro to clean up the html and then we use Sigil to make ePUBs, which we then transform, after some tweaking, with KindleGen for MOBI's for Kindle. If absolutely needed by the client, we'll do an LRF using Calibre.

HTH.
Hitch

[Toxaris]

You can use Atlantis to create an ePUB from a doc, sure. I tend to avoid automatic conversion as much as possible. I don't like the code Calibre is creating for ePUB. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I still don't like it. I prefer to do it manually and I totally agree with Hitch. If you want quality, you need Sigil for editing.

[SUeMichele]

Hitch and Serpentine,

Well Calibre does NOT convert from .doc or .txt, as far as I can tell. I don't know why I'd need to convert from .pub to .mobi, but apparently it'll do that. Unless I'm just missing something, in which case, I'd appreciate any info you have on how to do that.

I'm checking into Scrivener, as I like the writing features, but though I'm technically adept enough, all this take it from this program, pull it into this program, edit it, then export it as something else, and then do it again for each format is ridiculous. I predict that somewhere along the way someone will make a lot of money from us frustrated writers whose time is best spent, you know, *writing*, than doing all this converting. If I wanted to do this all by working line-by-line, then I wouldn't be a writer, I'd be a coder, right? I just find it hard to believe that no one has come up with something a little more streamlined. This reminds me of back in the day when you had to know UNIX commands to work a computer! (Actually, I had less trouble with that, and then doing web sites from scratch by hand. This is worse because each format is different, and if you want to self-publish, you need to output into more than one format!)

::Sigh::

I appreciate your replies, I'm just very frustrated. This is stuff I just don't want to get into in that level of detail. If anyone out there reading is a programmer, something designed for writers would make you some decent money!

Toxaris,

Thanks for your reply, too. What do you do that you don't like to do auto-converting? I'll have to do a search for Atlantis, to see what that is, as I've never heard of it (other than the place the Pegasus 'Gate goes to, that is <G>). If you're a writer, do you really go through all these steps to get your work out there? Jeez, I can't think of a more annoying thing to have to do, aside from filling out forms in doctors' offices!

And granted, I understand that there will be a certain amount of tweaking involved, in any event, no matter how I get my work into ereader formats. But that's the same as if I'm working in Word, right? At some point something doesn't format and I have to go into Reveal Codes (or whatever Word calls it now; I started out using WordPerfect back in the day), but that's a far cry from doing everything by hand, from start, like this is sounding. I don't mind so much the tweaking, because that's inevitable, but the majority of the conversion from Word or Scrivener or Movie Magic (I use that to write prose, since Rough Draft is apparently retiring with WinXP; it also has great index card functions) should be automatically done. After all, is that what computers were invented for? To do annoying, tedious work that humans don't want to do? Call me silly, but that's what I believe!

SUeMichele

[theducks]

Calibre most assuredly will convert plain (simple, tab and CRLF) text files into a readable (but boring ) EPUB, Mobi without any further markup (think of a Typewriter manuscript) .

[SUeMichele]

Originally Posted by theducks

Calibre most assuredly will convert plain (simple, tab and CRLF) text files into a readable (but boring ) EPUB, Mobi without any further markup (think of a Typewriter manuscript) .

I poked all around and could NOT find even *that*! Nor in the manual! Can you tell me where? It'd be nifty it would do plain Word.docs, too, or .rft's, but even this small functionality would be helpful. I *do* believe I have quite a number of things in plain .txt files that it would be nice to be able to read in .mobi on my Kindle. I've been using an online site to convert, but it's got issues, and I'd like to try it for stuff like fanfic, because that's not so vital and much different than doing self-publishing, IYKWIM.

Thanks!

SUeMichele

[JSWolf]

Save the DOC as either RTF or filtered HTM and convert from there.

[sellew]

You can get lost with the multiple options that Calibre offers but format conversion can be made with a few steps:
1.- Add the file (.txt, .rtf and HTM are allowed; not .doc) clicking the 'Add books' button.
2.- Click the 'Convert books' button and a new window will open.
3.- In this window select the output format on the drop-list located on the upper-right corner.
4.- If you do not want to play with all the options, just click the Ok button at the bottom of this window... and that's all.

[Toxaris]

Actually, if you build websites in that past, you have a big advantage. Most ebooks nowadays are based on or contains (x)HTML and CSS. The biggest question is usually getting your document to good HTML. Word is mediocre to say the least. Unfortunately most conversion programs deliver horrible code. Usually not their fault, but a result of having to be able to convert almost every possibility.

My 'route' is easy. I finish the document in Word (including styles), convert it to HTML (either via macro of filtered HTML) and then do the post-processing to ePUB in Sigil. If you need .mobi, you can/need to convert the ePUB to .mobi.

Atlantis Word Processor is a nice program, it is featured here and there. I don't use it, but I did test-drive it. I don't use it for some reasons, one of them is macro's... I have several macro's which help me with the e-books and save me a load of time. One big advantage is that it can read Word files and produces a quit nice ePUB.

[Hitch]

Actually, SUeMichele:

Most of the people reading your post ARE programmers or coders, and, here's a shock: people don't want to PAY for programs to make eBooks. There are authors over on the KDP forums bitching about how Amazon doesn't "fix" their programs so that their FREE tools don't magically fix crappily-coded Word files to make magically-beautiful eBooks.

Calibre and Sigil are both popular primarily because they are FREE. Jutoh struggles, because it costs a whopping $40, or something like that, but will convert almost anything TO almost anything, and operates like Word. Calibre WILL do everything you've asked, but you have to learn how to use it. Atlantis, ditto. Scrivener will make very passable ePUBs and MOBI's.

Sigil isn't a Word Processor. It's not an authorial tool. It's an ePUB editing and creation program for people who know how to use xhtml, css and regex. Everyone here has given you perfectly solid leads on finding programs that match up with your needs--and it isn't Sigil, as near as I can tell.


HTH.
Hitch

[Jabby]

I guess I do every thing upside down. I started by creating my source document in Open Office then using Calibre to convert to epub and then editing in Sigil. Then back to Calibre to convert epub to mobi. That turned out to be to much work.

I now create my source document with a text editor. Take the source to Open office to make a printable copy. The source also goes to Sigil to make the epub. Then the ebup to Calibre to add a cover and to convert to mobi.

I'm not so sure this would be a good method if the documents I were trying to create had a bunch of footnotes and such. If I were going to make a really complicated ebook, I think I would hire someone like Hitch and let him worry about it.

Regards - John

[John123]

[QUOTE=SUeMichele;1857125]I predict that somewhere along the way someone will make a lot of money . . .[QUOTE]

Yeah, probably Adobe or Bill Gates and make another zillion off us poor working stiffs and get us to debug it for them for the pleasure.

Basically, this stuff is still in it's infancy and, at the moment, Calibre and Sigil come up to the mark as far as the mind-numbing plethora of Ebook readers there are out there. Best of all they are FREE, unless you want to donate.

Throwing my hat into the ring. I'm a typesetter, from the good old days of hot metal production (compositor), since Gutenberg then the late '70s and the advent of cold composition there has never been a "one-stop-shop" for book-production needs, previously only monks could do that. To pull a book together, that the market will accept, you need several programs to get it done, whether it's Photoshop or Illustrator (*groan* Adobe products), etc., etc. and, for the present, Ebooks are no different. For even the most simple novel you have to export PDF (is Adobe looking to dominate the world!), so that printers can use your product!

Think about it this way. The time spent researching your needs could have been spent using Calibre and Sigil, after all, it only takes a few minutes per book.