Kindlers Boycott $10+ ebooks

[dkb]

Personally I don't consider it a boycott so much as giving the decision makers who are setting ebook prices higher than print copies some free market research. Normally a retailer knows their prices are too high when they have excess inventory taking up space in their stores. Since with ebooks there probably isn't much expense involved in inventory, they might not realize how many sales they're losing. So I think those of us who refuse to be overcharged need to speak up.

That being said, I'm still buying $100 worth of ebooks from Amazon each month. There are plenty of books available for free and under my limit. For science fictions fans, Baen's web site is a good source of reasonable priced ebooks.

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So these people would buy a book if it costs $9.99, but "boycott" it if is costs a penny more? Don't you think that's slightly ridiculous?

Don't worry: this summer 90% if the people in the western world can not afford a book that costs one penny.
That'll be a sort of "natural boycott"!!!

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by grisjuan

For example, in a capitalist society we expect competition to push prices down over time. That doesn't seem to be happening quickly enough with ebooks to match the intuition and expectations of these consumers. Perhaps they suspect the market isn't functioning perfectly?

It isn't happening with ebooks because the market isn't really open and competitive. Most buyers of a Kindle believe that they can only buy ebooks from Amazon -- a captive audience. If you can buy from only one source, where's the competition?

Amazon's gimmick is to induce readers to buy a Kindle by offering New York Times bestsellers at $9.99. Once a person spends $350 for a Kindle and comes to enjoy the reading experience the Kindle provides, they will return to Amazon for future purchases. They won't/can't go to the Sony store, even if Sony was selling the same books at half Amazon's price.

There is no real competition for Amazon if the device owner owns a Kindle. And, Sony, Cybook, etc., owners don't add any pressure to Amazon to lower prices because they are not part of Amazon's market.

Similarly, there is no real competition for publishers. You cannot buy the newest James Patterson novel from more than one publisher. And there is no incentive for a publisher to lower the price because your choice is either to buy the Patterson book or not. It does not matter to the publisher which retailer sells you the book as the publisher's take will be approximately the same.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by rhadin

It isn't happening with ebooks because the market isn't really open and competitive. Most buyers of a Kindle believe that they can only buy ebooks from Amazon -- a captive audience. If you can buy from only one source, where's the competition?

Amazon's gimmick is to induce readers to buy a Kindle by offering New York Times bestsellers at $9.99. Once a person spends $350 for a Kindle and comes to enjoy the reading experience the Kindle provides, they will return to Amazon for future purchases. They won't/can't go to the Sony store, even if Sony was selling the same books at half Amazon's price.

There is no real competition for Amazon if the device owner owns a Kindle. And, Sony, Cybook, etc., owners don't add any pressure to Amazon to lower prices because they are not part of Amazon's market.

Similarly, there is no real competition for publishers. You cannot buy the newest James Patterson novel from more than one publisher. And there is no incentive for a publisher to lower the price because your choice is either to buy the Patterson book or not. It does not matter to the publisher which retailer sells you the book as the publisher's take will be approximately the same.

That's what stinks! I was really angry that one of the Dresden Files books was ridiculously overpriced (not just on Sony, but everywhere else except for Kindle), and I couldn't buy it anywhere else. But I want to read it, so I have to go get it in pbook. So the publisher still gets my money. Grrrr (yes I did send them an email). But now that I think about it, I should have just found a used copy.

[Daithi]

How do we know that Amazon is actually taking a loss on the best sellers? I've heard this premise stated on several occassions, but is this a documented fact or is it just conjecture?

New York Times bestsellers in hardback run around $16. These books have costs not associated with ebooks. An ebook doesn't have materials, transportation, and storage costs. There is also the industry practice of allowing book stores to order more books than will likely sell and then return the unsold portion. This practice definately inflates the cost of the hardback books that do sell, and this practice doesn't apply to ebooks.

However, let's assume that Amazon is offering ebook bestsellers for less margin than hardback bestsellers. This still doesn't mean that they are losing money on these items. The publishers also have an incentive to increase overall ebook sales, so they may be sharing the cost of the price reduction with Amazon.

Amazon and the publisher will also continue to make sales even after the publishers stop publishing the book. This too must be factored in to determining the price for an ebook when compared to a hardback.

If Amazon and the publishers were truly losing money on book sales then I'd understand if they decided to raise prices. However, I'm not so certain that is the case.

When the factors I laid out above are concidered, how much does Amazon, the Publisher, and the Author make on a hardback book? How much do they make on an ebook? I don't think any of us really know, but there is certainly no proof that Amazon is losing money at $9.99 a book.

Would I support a boycott? Well, I'm not going to picket in front of Amazon's headquarters, but as long as most books remain at $9.99 or less then I don't plan on buying any books that cost more than that.

[Ervserver]

The Mrs loves her Kindle but personally I'm boycotting all Kindles over $199

[Alisa]

Unless the publishers are charging Amazon less for their ebooks than they charge other ebook retailers, then the list price of the new release and best seller ebooks often exceeds Amazon's $9.99. The publisher is not the one losing money. Amazon loses money if they choose to sell the ebook for less than they paid for it. Other ebook retailers have lowered their prices considerably to compete, but they're smaller concerns which can't absorb these kind of short term losses in hopes of the long term gain.

Originally Posted by Daithi

How do we know that Amazon is actually taking a loss on the best sellers? I've heard this premise stated on several occassions, but is this a documented fact or is it just conjecture?

New York Times bestsellers in hardback run around $16. These books have costs not associated with ebooks. An ebook doesn't have materials, transportation, and storage costs. There is also the industry practice of allowing book stores to order more books than will likely sell and then return the unsold portion. This practice definately inflates the cost of the hardback books that do sell, and this practice doesn't apply to ebooks.

However, let's assume that Amazon is offering ebook bestsellers for less margin than hardback bestsellers. This still doesn't mean that they are losing money on these items. The publishers also have an incentive to increase overall ebook sales, so they may be sharing the cost of the price reduction with Amazon.

Amazon and the publisher will also continue to make sales even after the publishers stop publishing the book. This too must be factored in to determining the price for an ebook when compared to a hardback.

If Amazon and the publishers were truly losing money on book sales then I'd understand if they decided to raise prices. However, I'm not so certain that is the case.

When the factors I laid out above are concidered, how much does Amazon, the Publisher, and the Author make on a hardback book? How much do they make on an ebook? I don't think any of us really know, but there is certainly no proof that Amazon is losing money at $9.99 a book.

Would I support a boycott? Well, I'm not going to picket in front of Amazon's headquarters, but as long as most books remain at $9.99 or less then I don't plan on buying any books that cost more than that.

[Knipfty]

As one of those who is boycotting Kindle books that cost more than $9.99, I am amazed at how many of you that are mocking us. And that's right if the book were one penny more, I would not buy it. That is where we drew the line based on Amazon's marketing. And yes, we all realize that Amazon's marketing amounts to a non-promise that they feature in the advertising.

For me, there are exceptions. These include text books and technical material. These books typically cost $35 and up, way up in some cases. So I would not expect a book of this type to be had on my Kindle for $9.99. I am after all, reasonable.

To further drive this point home, I will always, no exception, not purchase any ebook where the Kindle price is not discounted as compared to the cheapest new book price on Amazon. There currently ebooks that are priced the same as paperback DTBs. I have written the publisher an email letter and after two-plus weeks, I have yet to receive a reply. So I will read other books.

I also see no reason not to participate in this boycott, as we are telling Amazon and the publishers why we are not buying the ebooks. If the publishers choose not to listen, that is their problem. I have more choices as to what I will read because of the Kindle...

[Studio717]

I have no doubt that the screwy pricing of ebooks needs to be dealt with, but I can't see where punishing authors by not buying their books helps anyone. The publisher is just going to look and say, "Author A's numbers are down, don't buy another book from him/her."

Personally, I'd think a blogging campaign would do more good.

(And, usually, the ebook royalty rate is separate from the p-book royalty rate, both negotiated separately.)

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Unless the publishers are charging Amazon less for their ebooks than they charge other ebook retailers, then the list price of the new release and best seller ebooks often exceeds Amazon's $9.99. The publisher is not the one losing money. Amazon loses money if they choose to sell the ebook for less than they paid for it. Other ebook retailers have lowered their prices considerably to compete, but they're smaller concerns which can't absorb these kind of short term losses in hopes of the long term gain.

I realize that if the publishers are charging Amazon more for an ebook than Amazon is selling the ebook that Amazon is taking a loss. I just don't know that we can assume that this is the case.

[bhartman36]

I really don't see what the difference is if it's Amazon or the publishers losing money on the $9.99 books. Is the difference supposed to be that the publishers can take the hit?

The fact of the matter is, if either Amazon or the publisher doesn't make money on e-books, they won't produce e-books.

Now, don't get me wrong: There are a lot of books I have looked at on the Kindle Store that I won't buy because they're > $9.99. (While bestsellers from the NY Times list are generally $9.99, a significant number of the well-reviewed books in the NY Times Book Review are more costly.) But that doesn't mean I resent the higher price. I simply haven't found an ebook yet worth paying that much. But a blanket statement of, "I refuse to pay more than $9.99 for an ebook" means that the number of ebooks produced will be significantly restricted, since publishers know that they can safely ignore the 500,000 Kindle owners out there and still pick up the millions of readers who haven't got ebook readers yet. That sets up a vicious circle, as a shrinking supply of ebooks will mean a shrinking demand for readers.

So I think the idea of buying only what you feel has value to you is a good and obvious idea, but at the same time, a blanket declaration that > $10 is too much to pay for an ebook does more harm than good -- if your goal is for the publishers and Amazon to actually produce ebooks.

[Knipfty]

Originally Posted by Studio717

I have no doubt that the screwy pricing of ebooks needs to be dealt with, but I can't see where punishing authors by not buying their books helps anyone. The publisher is just going to look and say, "Author A's numbers are down, don't buy another book from him/her."

Personally, I'd think a blogging campaign would do more good.

(And, usually, the ebook royalty rate is separate from the p-book royalty rate, both negotiated separately.)

I cannot tell the difference between the publisher and the author. As far as I am concerned they are one in the same as the author has signed up with the publisher. I have mailed on author and still have not received a reply from them. In some postings, the authors claim that the publishers are not responsive to their emails.

I expect that my Kindle ebooks to cost less than any new DTB. I had a conversation with a publishing industry person on the train one morning back in January. She was proofreading on a Sony unit and I had my Kindle open. Somewhere during the conversation we got on to the topic of pricing. Her stance and that of much of the major publishers was that I am paying for content, how I choose to read it was my business, but the I was paying for the content. I disagree.

[whitearrow]

Here is what drives me crazy.

Turn Coat (The Dresden Files, Book 11) (Hardcover)
by Jim Butcher (Author)
List Price: $25.95
Price: $16.52 & eligible for free shipping with Amazon Prime
You Save: $9.43 (36%)

Turn Coat (Kindle Edition)
by Jim Butcher (Author)
Digital List Price: $25.95
Kindle Price: $14.27 & includes wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
You Save: $11.68 (45%)

Assuming that the quoted list prices are correct, then the publisher's list price for both the digital and print edition is $25.95. That is simply batpoo INSANE. Not $9.99 vs. $14.27 -- but the fact that the publisher actually thinks that the retail price of the print and ebooks should be identical, despite all the additional costs associated with a print book and all the disadvantages of an ebook (particularly and especially as compared to a hardcover, the lack of resale value). I'm not blaming Amazon, I'm placing the blame squarely where it belongs -- the publisher.

Now with that said, the bottom line for me is that I think an ebook should cost some significant amount less than the print book, and experience shows me that within a couple of weeks of release, the ebook price will probably drop to $9.99. So I'm going to wait -- not to participate in a boycott or make a statement, but to satisfy myself that I'm actually getting a decent value for my money, and in this particular case, the price point for that is $9.99.

Next time? Well, that may be different.

[Knipfty]

I am seeing a disturbing trend with Simon & Schuster books that I previously purchased. These three books were purchased previously at 20% to 30% below the Paperback version back in December and January. They all now are selling for the same as the DTB version!!!!

Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night by David Mack (Kindle Edition - Sep 30, 2008) - Kindle Book Buy: $7.99
Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls by David Mack (Kindle Edition - Nov 25, 2008) - Kindle Book Buy: $7.99
Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals by David Mack (Kindle Edition - Oct 28, 2008) - Kindle Book Buy: $7.99

And these books that I intended to purchase and on hold indefinitely...

Star Trek: Titan: Star Trek: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea by Christopher L. Bennett (Kindle Edition - Feb 24, 2009) - Kindle Book Buy: $7.99
Star Trek: Voyager: Star Trek: Voyager: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer (Kindle Edition - Mar 31, 2009) - Kindle Book Buy: $7.99

In all cases the Digital List Price is $9.99 or $2 higher than the paperback!!!!!

So on the outside chance that someone with half a brain from S&S is reading this, you are losing sales because of you unreasonable pricing. In addition, no one from S&S has returned my email from a two-plus weeks ago. Is this how you treat your customers???

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

Here is what drives me crazy.

Turn Coat (The Dresden Files, Book 11) (Hardcover)
by Jim Butcher (Author)
List Price: $25.95
Price: $16.52 & eligible for free shipping with Amazon Prime
You Save: $9.43 (36%)

Turn Coat (Kindle Edition)
by Jim Butcher (Author)
Digital List Price: $25.95
Kindle Price: $14.27 & includes wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
You Save: $11.68 (45%)

Assuming that the quoted list prices are correct, then the publisher's list price for both the digital and print edition is $25.95. That is simply batpoo INSANE. Not $9.99 vs. $14.27 -- but the fact that the publisher actually thinks that the retail price of the print and ebooks should be identical, despite all the additional costs associated with a print book and all the disadvantages of an ebook (particularly and especially as compared to a hardcover, the lack of resale value). I'm not blaming Amazon, I'm placing the blame squarely where it belongs -- the publisher.

Now with that said, the bottom line for me is that I think an ebook should cost some significant amount less than the print book, and experience shows me that within a couple of weeks of release, the ebook price will probably drop to $9.99. So I'm going to wait -- not to participate in a boycott or make a statement, but to satisfy myself that I'm actually getting a decent value for my money, and in this particular case, the price point for that is $9.99.

Next time? Well, that may be different.

Heh, I'm picking that one at the library.

I think they put that price up as a guideline (like, hey, here's the pbook cost). And, slightly sticking up for the publisher here, it's been discussed how "hardcover" is kind of an arbitrary thing. Books don't need to be published in hardcover, they do it to make more money on books they expect to be popular. So they use the same scheme with ebooks.

If that particular book, while it was still in hardcover, was available for 10-12 dollars, I'd be on it. But I can't justify spending that on an ebook. So I'll be picking it up at the library. I was more angry that the publisher fed Sony and fictionwise bad info on book 6, which both places were charging hardcover prices even though it's been in paperback for years. But of course, it's the right price for Kindle. That ticked me off big time.

Penguin, S&S, I hate you guys. Harlequin, I love you forever.