Seriousness What is it that makes us human? - Page 3

MickeyC · 04-25-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea

Not even sure what I ask... I've been watching Blade Runner again. Anyway, to ask the question; why do you think you're human? How well does that argument hold up? And if not, what *do* you think you are?

Isn't the main thing that makes us human the fact that we're not afraid of vacuum cleaners?

Dr. Drib · 04-25-2009, 11:03 AM

If we turn to science, then we could consider symbolic cognition and abstract thought. If we pursue this, we can look at the evolution of the brain and the part it plays in our development.

However, I'm thinking beyond the boundaries (or realm) of science, and looking at the question in a more "humanistic" way.

Don

vivaldirules · 04-25-2009, 11:11 AM

Ego trumps everything. Our capacities to reason, love, nurture, possess, manipulate, violate, etc. are now simply tools to serve it.

taosaur · 04-25-2009, 12:59 PM

I think the "religion" position is viable if you set aside bias regarding the truth or falsity of specific beliefs and consider the fundamental activity underlying both religion and language. Both arise from encoding our perceptions as a body of symbols. Aside from rare, transcendent experiences and enlightened beings, we only engage reality via perceptual frameworks built out of interlocking symbols, whether or not those frameworks are religious in character.

Setting aside the taxonomically loaded term 'human,' when we meet an entity (or put another way just for fun: when we transform into proximity of a body of stimuli presenting itself as an etity

), whether we assign it personhood near or equal our own depends mainly on whether our perceptual frameworks are able to recognize and network with its perceptual frameworks. Thus some people extend personhood to some or all animals, while others deny it to all but a select subset of homo sapiens.

wodin · 04-25-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassidym

Isn't the main thing that makes us human the fact that we're not afraid of vacuum cleaners?

Who's not afraid of ... OMG There's one now!

Steven Lyle Jordan · 04-25-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassidym

Isn't the main thing that makes us human the fact that we're not afraid of vacuum cleaners?

No... the fact that we are not brave enough to chase a car.

Another film that offers insight to the question is "Ghost In The Shell." Many of those characters are cyborgs, or in some cases, organic brains encased in an entirely robotic body, and work alongside unaugmented humans. The question that is often asked is whether or not those cyborgs have retained their souls, or "ghosts," by becoming cyborgs or robotic brain cases, and if there is really any difference between them and any other animal, or machine.

Overall, I see no fundamental difference between humans and any other animals on this planet... we are the Naked Ape. Communication... dexterity... emotion... tool-building... self-awareness... learning... survival... self-sacrifice... community... abstract thought (which extends, by definition, to religious belief, which is at root <AuthorDucks>a psychological affectation created by our own over-developed pattern-recognition skills </AuthorDucks>)... all of these things have been catalogued in other animals, and so cannot be used as yardsticks for "uniqueness."

Possibly the only thing that sets us further apart from all other animals is our plasticity, our unique ability to adapt any or all of the above-mentioned elements, at will, to our purposes.

HarryT · 04-25-2009, 01:50 PM

We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe

.

taosaur · 04-25-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe

.

Regardless of how 'special' we are, we're family, and it's perfectly reasonable to consider what qualities merit inclusion or by what processes we include beings in that family.

netseeker · 04-25-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us.

Then maybe it's just our incredible luck that made/makes us human.

taosaur · 04-25-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netseeker

Then maybe it's just our incredible luck that made/makes us human.

Luck, to have partaken of the fruit of knowledge, forever barred from the Garden, living a delusion of separation from the Tao?

netseeker · 04-25-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taosaur

Luck, to have partaken of the fruit of knowledge, forever barred from the Garden, living a delusion of separation from the Tao?

Assumed these things have really happened or are about to happen (living a delusion of separation from the Tao): Could we both be alive and "human" if these things never had happended/aren't about to happen?

tirsales · 04-25-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by taosaur

I think the "religion" position is viable if you set aside bias regarding the truth or falsity of specific beliefs and consider the fundamental activity underlying both religion and language. Both arise from encoding our perceptions as a body of symbols. Aside from rare, transcendent experiences and enlightened beings, we only engage reality via perceptual frameworks built out of interlocking symbols, whether or not those frameworks are religious in character.

This is a very religious approach to science

Lady Blue · 04-25-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe

.

I have to agree. Humans are just another species that evolved on this planet, no more special than any other except in our own minds. So answering the original question "What is it that makes us human?" I think that's all there is to it.

If the question had been:

"what puts humans at the top of the food chain?"

"what makes us humane?"

"what makes us so different from all other species on the planet?"

or any number of other questions that might inquire who we are as humans, then I think there might be more to ponder. The way the question was posed, and if we want to remain true to that question without wandering off on other tangents, I for one, hit a brick wall for further discussion.

Moejoe · 04-25-2009, 09:04 PM

Is it, in a roundabout Zen type of way, that we understand we are humans. Is that what defines us? Can any other animal do that? Can they be self-aware of their own existence and the existence of a greater humanity beyond immediate communication?

Or as that great Zen philosopher, Popeye, put it -- "I am what I am" or was it "I is what I is".

nohmi2 · 04-25-2009, 09:13 PM

I agree with tirsales that this was a very sensible response by HarryT.

Originally Posted by HarryT
We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe .

We have a very inflated opinion of our achievements (which in some cases are indeed remarkable), but compare that to how us humans are becoming
more insular and destructive.

Maybe we really do need to get back to some basics.

Cheers

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04-25-2009, 11:03 AM	#32
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 44,737 Karma: 55645321 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: Kindle: Oasis 3, Voyage WiFi; Kobo: Libra 2, Aura One	If we turn to science, then we could consider symbolic cognition and abstract thought. If we pursue this, we can look at the evolution of the brain and the part it plays in our development. However, I'm thinking beyond the boundaries (or realm) of science, and looking at the question in a more "humanistic" way. Don

04-25-2009, 11:11 AM	#33
vivaldirules When's Doughnut Day? Posts: 10,059 Karma: 13675475 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Houston, TX, US Device: Sony PRS-505, iPad	Ego trumps everything. Our capacities to reason, love, nurture, possess, manipulate, violate, etc. are now simply tools to serve it.

04-25-2009, 12:59 PM	#34
taosaur intelligent posterior Posts: 1,562 Karma: 21295618 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ohiopolis Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, Samsung S8, Lenovo Tab 3 Pro	I think the "religion" position is viable if you set aside bias regarding the truth or falsity of specific beliefs and consider the fundamental activity underlying both religion and language. Both arise from encoding our perceptions as a body of symbols. Aside from rare, transcendent experiences and enlightened beings, we only engage reality via perceptual frameworks built out of interlocking symbols, whether or not those frameworks are religious in character. Setting aside the taxonomically loaded term 'human,' when we meet an entity (or put another way just for fun: when we transform into proximity of a body of stimuli presenting itself as an etity ), whether we assign it personhood near or equal our own depends mainly on whether our perceptual frameworks are able to recognize and network with its perceptual frameworks. Thus some people extend personhood to some or all animals, while others deny it to all but a select subset of homo sapiens.

04-25-2009, 01:50 PM	#37
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe .

04-25-2009, 09:04 PM	#44
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	Is it, in a roundabout Zen type of way, that we understand we are humans. Is that what defines us? Can any other animal do that? Can they be self-aware of their own existence and the existence of a greater humanity beyond immediate communication? Or as that great Zen philosopher, Popeye, put it -- "I am what I am" or was it "I is what I is".

04-25-2009, 09:13 PM	#45
nohmi2 Pensively observing. Posts: 1,758 Karma: 12675456 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Varied.	I agree with tirsales that this was a very sensible response by HarryT. Originally Posted by HarryT We are humans, just as dogs are dogs and aardvarks are aardvarks. I don't personally think we are anything "special" - we are simply primates who took an evolutionary path, about 7 million years ago, which led to what we happen to be now. It could have happened to any species; it just happened to be us. I think it's quite monstrous egotism to suggest that we hold some "special position" in the universe . We have a very inflated opinion of our achievements (which in some cases are indeed remarkable), but compare that to how us humans are becoming more insular and destructive. Maybe we really do need to get back to some basics. Cheers

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