If You Had a Library with WTS Books, It's GONE Now!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

Entirely of my own making? The problem is entirely of my own making? Do you mean that, literally, no part of the problem is of the ebook companies' making?

Yes, I'm afraid that is what I mean.

ePub bookstores work completely differently to Amazon. With Amazon, the ecosystem is set up such that the book lives on Amazon's servers, is authorised for a specific device, and sent by Amazon's servers to that device. If Amazon goes out of business, you're up the proverbial creek.

With ePub books, you buy a book from the bookstore, download it to "Adobe Digital Editions" on your computer, and then send it from ADE to your reading device. The bookstore is not involved in the process in any way whatsoever after that initial download, and has neither a need nor an obligation to store your book for you. It is your responsibility, and yours alone, to keep that downloaded file safe.

As I wrote in my initial post on this thread, "I'm going to be downloading ebooks from all of my libraries that I can [from now on], across all vendors, to my hard drive just as soon as I can." I may even make backups, in addition to the ones that I do on my hard drive. I haven't done it, yet, but I may start backing up also, or instead, to the cloud.

If you're not making backups it's simply a question of when, not if you'll lose all your data, including your books. All hard disks crash - it's simply a question of when it happens.

Before I quit, I have a question. I may have erred when I said that WTS Books was giving me only 6 days to unzip the file; they may have meant, to download the zip file. As long as I've got the zip file, I have my books from WTS Books in some form on my computer perpetually, right? And once I figure out how or--and I'm not holding my breathe--the representative at Westminster Theological Seminary Bookstore tells me how--I can unzip the file even after 6 (now it's 5) days? Or is there some kind of limit that can be built into the zip file where it will no longer unzip after a certain date or amount of time?

I don't understand what you mean when you say "once you figure out how to unzip it". What happens when you try to unzip it?

[Tarana]

I'm so sorry about your near loss of many ebooks. I learned early to download as I buy.

Paper book loss happens as well. Ask anybody involved in a flood or fire. My cousin lost 3,000 books in a move across country last year. Her brother lost all his comics, dvds and cds in a fire 3 years ago. At least we can store copies off-site!

[cromag]

Yeah, my introduction to the joys of intangible ownership began with Fictionwise as well. Despite repeated reassurances, none of my purchases made it over to B&N -- but I had them all safely downloaded, so all was well.

Sorry to hear about your hassles. It really shouldn't be this way.

[GtrsRGr8]

Didn't get to read all of your responses, yet. But, I will.

From the beginning, the question that I raised in the O.P. of this thread was at least equally as much about the wider issue of how ebookstores can get by with taking away your libraries that you have with them, which libraries consist of ebooks (licenses) which you have either purchased (the most likely scenario) or received from some promo or such like. It has not been so much about WTS Books, specifically.

I happen to have three first cousins who are attorneys (in Alaska, Tennessee, and Alabama) and, I feel sure that with our precious familial bonds (and with me coughing up several hundred dollars per hour) any one of them would be glad to research the legal issues involved and address them for me.

But whether or not it is legal is almost beside the point: libraries of your ebooks are disappearing and companies are disallowing downloads of your ebooks now which companies used to allow (I'm thinking of B&N), among possibly other egregious violations of decorum (IMHO) related to the retail ebook trade.

This problem has certainly alerted me to the danger of not backing up my ebooks. I've already started making changes. So this travesty of justice (IMHO) has resulted in something positive (I've gotten so paranoid . . . er . . . cautious now that I actually make .txt file backups of my longer posts, like these!)

Some of you may be interested in the outcome of my effort to unzip the zip file that the representative at WTS sent me. You remember that I was having all kinds of trouble getting it done. A kind MobileReader, who has been following this thread, suggested that I try the 7-Zip program. I happened to have it already installed, although it isn't my default unzip program. It didn't take but a few keystrokes, and bada-bing, bada-boom! all, apparently, of my ebook files from WTS Books appeared. I successfully opened one, just to make sure that this was all really real.

I had forgotten this, but WTS Books apparently only sold/sells ebooks in mobi. When I tested one ebook file, the ebook automatically opened up in my Kindle desktop reader. It appears in my Kindle library. Does this mean that I just traded one library (at WTS Books) for another one (at Amazon) and that, ultimately, I've got the same problem as I had at the beginning? Or are all of my ebooks from WTS Books now securely on my hard drive? I think that it is extremely unlikely that Amazon would make my library disappear, though, where I didn't (well, I don't now) with WTS Books.

It was serendipitous (providential?) that I happened to go to WTS Books' website when I did. I used to go over there only about once every couple of months. I shudder to think of what might have happened had I not gone there when I did! I feel sorry for the poor saps who will be going to the WTS Books website, don't find their libraries, and learn the cold, hard truth that their ebooks have gone bye-bye. Forever.

Now I've got to get busy (belatedly) learning Calibre and using its capabilities. I think that I will try moving my Kobo library first.

Thanks for all of your help!

[GtrsRGr8]

Originally Posted by library addict

The majority of bookstores I have shopped at have closed, Fictionwise was the first biggie for me. Also Sony and Books on Board. Plus multiple smaller stores. And B&N might as well be closed since they stopped allowing downloads.

I've lost some freebies that I did not download right away. But nowadays I also buy and immediately download.

I don't know why Fictionwise, Sony, and Books on Board closed (it was a little before my ebook days). If it was due to bankruptcy, I could be more forgiving, but if it was indifference to their loyal customers, that is another.

[GtrsRGr8]

Originally Posted by cromag

Yeah, my introduction to the joys of intangible ownership began with Fictionwise as well. Despite repeated reassurances, none of my purchases made it over to B&N -- but I had them all safely downloaded, so all was well.

Sorry to hear about your hassles. It really shouldn't be this way.

I had just started downloading my B&N books, when they changed their policy. I don't remember now what prompted me to start downloading them. Something alerted me to a possible problem.

These companies (that voluntarily make customers' libraries disappear) know that what they are doing is sleazy. When they inform customers, they sound sheepish about it. I wish that I had made a recording of the one or two guys at B&N who hem-hawed around about the fact that, yes, I no longer could download my books from them. Anyway, I wrote what they said in a post on MobileRead back at that time.

[library addict]

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

I don't know why Fictionwise, Sony, and Books on Board closed (it was a little before my ebook days). If it was due to bankruptcy, I could be more forgiving, but if it was indifference to their loyal customers, that is another.

Fictionwise was such a great store to shop at. They had a great club you could join for discounts. When you bought a book on the NYT Best Sellers List you would get 100% of the price back to spend at their store, so more books! Other books were 15% off. Plus when you had large orders, you'd get a percentage back in micropay to buy more books with. Plus you could combine offers there. Yes I went broke saving money, but I LOVED them.

Then Agency pricing happened. No more club. No more Fictionwise.

Sony closed due to a multitude of factors.

Books on Board took a bit longer, but they were also a victim of Agency pricing.

Instead of leveling the playing field as was supposedly the intent, Agency pricing took away independent stores ability to discount and/or have special sales (like Buy 10-get-1-free or the Buywise club). So customers had no reason to seek out or use these stores where admittedly there were a few hoops to jump through. Especially when Amazon offered such seamless integration between their store and the Kindle. People who were tech-challenged or just didn't want to deal with extra steps also had no reason not to shop at Amazon.

I prefer ePub, so don't shop at Amazon for books much. But it's disheartening when store after store after store closes.

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

Does this mean that I just traded one library (at WTS Books) for another one (at Amazon) and that, ultimately, I've got the same problem as I had at the beginning? Or are all of my ebooks from WTS Books now securely on my hard drive?

The books should be on your hard drive (in the unzipped folder). You have the mobi file type associated with the Kindle 4 PC app so that's what they opened in. (File types usually have a default program associated with them).

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

I think that it is extremely unlikely that Amazon would make my library disappear, though, where I didn't (well, I don't now) with WTS Books.

Maybe so, but there's already been one instance where the Kindle 4 PC program changed and it wouldn't open older books, so all of one's purchases had to be redownloaded.

[GtrsRGr8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, I'm afraid that is what I mean.
<snip>

Harry T, after some reflection, I think that our differences might be largely, if not completely, a matter of semantics.

If a person leaves the doors unlocked, and the keys in the ignition of his/her car. while he/she make a quick trip into the convenience store for something, and someone steals his/her car while he/she is in the store, I would say that the problem was entirely of that person's own making. He or she failed to take reasonable precautions, and was irresponsible. I think that we both agree that that does not exonerate the car thief, though. He is still guilty.

The failure to download ebook files (and let's not forget audio files) and save them probably is analogous. If the website takes all of the person's library away to never never land, and the person has not downloaded and saved them first, like he/she knows that he/she should have done, then, yes, it is a problem of the person' own making. He or she failed to take reasonable precautions. However, I hope that you agree with me that purveyors of ebooks who take away libraries, without notice, etc., still bear guilt.

If that is the way that you see things, then I certainly agree with you.
[/QUOTE]

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

When I tested one ebook file, the ebook automatically opened up in my Kindle desktop reader. It appears in my Kindle library. Does this mean that I just traded one library (at WTS Books) for another one (at Amazon) and that, ultimately, I've got the same problem as I had at the beginning? Or are all of my ebooks from WTS Books now securely on my hard drive? I think that it is extremely unlikely that Amazon would make my library disappear, though, where I didn't (well, I don't now) with WTS Books.

I believe that you are talking about the Kindle for PC (or Mac) program opening your book. If so then it is only in the library of that app on that one device, stored as a file on your hard drive. Amazon isn't keeping it safe for you in this case.

You do have the option of adding e-books as a personal documents to your Amazon account where they will keep a copy for you and allow it to be downloaded to Kindle devices and apps on demand. This feature is convenient if you own Kindle devices, but I would still recommend keeping your own backup of the file. Oddly, for some reason Amazon does not allow you download personal documents to Kindle for PC/Mac.

[darryl]

You should keep the zip file safe as well.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

I think that it is extremely unlikely that Amazon would make my library disappear, though, where I didn't (well, I don't now) with WTS Books.

While I agree that your Amazon library is unlikely to disappear any time soon do keep in mind that both Amazon & B&N sold ebooks before the eInk device Kindle/Nook days and folks lost access to all of those books when both decided to stop selling eBooks. I'm not saying it's likely to happen again, at least not any time soon, as it's a totally different landscape when it come to eBooks and digital in general. Just something to keep in mind.



Personally I have books from quite a few places that are no more (at least in the form they were when I bought)...

• Harper Collins (closed store, folks lost access and didn't get it back when they opened a new one)
• Amazon (first go around)
• Fictionwise (some transferred to B&N)
• Mobipocket
• eReader/Palm/Peanut Press
• Books on Board
• Samhain
• OmniLit/All Romance
• Borders (transferred to Kobo)
• Sony (transferred to Kobo, mostly)
• CyberRead
• Copia
• Diesel eBooks
• Direct eBooks
• Penguin
• Probably a few more I'm not thinking of.

I don't buy from B&N, but thankfully can still download all of my stuff with Nook 4 PC when needed.

[GtrsRGr8]

Thanks to all of your helpful information above. And, just some plain interesting information that I had not known.

There's a lot for this almost-computer-iliterate person to try to absorb. But, thankfully, I won't have to absorb it all, just the stuff relevant to my situation.

[cfrizz]

The bottom line is if you paid for it, it belongs on your pc, that is the only way your going to keep it.

[John F]

Originally Posted by GtrsRGr8

...

If a person leaves the doors unlocked, and the keys in the ignition of his/her car. while he/she make a quick trip into the convenience store for something, and someone steals his/her car while he/she is in the store, I would say that the problem was entirely of that person's own making. He or she failed to take reasonable precautions, and was irresponsible. I think that we both agree that that does not exonerate the car thief, though. He is still guilty.

...

[BearMountainBooks]

The downloading things you want applies to other than books--I buy a few fonts from various sites because I do book cover work. Right now those sites are enjoying a period of growth and they are popping up all over with great deals. They all offer to keep the fonts and say they can be downloaded at any time after purchase...I always download. Some of these sites are going to merge (one that I have purchased from has already done so) and some will just go under. There's no substitute for a local copy that is also backed up. The sites do offer some nice extras when they keep the fonts available (you can sort easier, see the font and type in trial text). But always download what you buy--music, fonts, software, and books.