DRM, or not DRM: that is the question (poll)

[mogui]

Originally Posted by BruceW

mogui does this mean that you want a system that makes me pay for the same "book" every time I read it. I have a number of "comfort" books that I have read multiple/dozens of times. Do you want me to pay for reading the same "beat up, dog eared paperback" (or the electronic version) everytime I want to revisit a story?

Yes. It would reward the author in proportion to your interest, I grant you there us a lot of comfort in a wall of pBooks. But I have sort of gotten over that so I can travel lightly. In the world of eBooks, we might need a different model so we can continue to encourage the creative act. I have personally bought the same books many times, so I don't mind paying again and again. If the royalty bite was light each time, it wouldn't hurt very much. If you consider the cost of re-reads spread out over books we own, books we loan, library books and used books, the cost per word would be vanishingly small. Remember, this fee goes to the author, not some big company.

Oh, BruceW, I will probably keep my "comfort" books too as long as I can keep my Canadian condo. But over time . . .

Originally Posted by rlauzon

It's already been proven that this cannot exist.

DRM must be closed and proprietary in order to work.

Huh?

Originally Posted by rlauzon

But that's not the purpose of DRM. DRM cannot protect content. We've already proven that.

Huh again?

Originally Posted by rlauzon

The purpose of DRM is to lock users into a company - and lock out competition. The whole DRM issue has nothing do to with "IP" (an oxymoron, IHMO) and piracy.

I want to be clear that I am advocating changing the purpose of DRM. It would be a universal standard available to authors to use to gain compensation for their works. An author would use a public key while the reader would use a private key tied to an account on a server. Some open-source genius could write this protection mechanism in a week. All books under this system would be freely available peer-to-peer.

rlauzon, your concerns are valid when applied to the current system, but I am wondering if your statistical references can be applied to a new standard.

Try looking at this from the point of view of the writer. I like to write so I see this issue from the inside. Not to the extent of the folks like Steve Jordan and Eric Flint who self-market, but I share their hopes and dreams and I have looked into many of the issues they have to deal with.

First, if you like to write and feel you have a talent for it, you may be fortunately compelled to write. This compulsion is a great gift. But if, like so many, you have to force yourself to begin writing each day, you will naturally ask yourself, "Why would I try to write for a living?" The answers are not easy and the odds are poor. The publishing industry presents many obstacles from the slush pile to remainders. All of these obstacles can choke off a new author before the public has a chance to respond one way or the other. Some exceptions are the phenomena of blogging and fan-fiction. But the pay is not there.

What if the new author could self-encrypt his work and put it on one or more peer-to-peer networks? He could allow a free read of the first X pages (he decides) to help his marketing. The eReader would show a meter of the costs incurred so the reader could decide when or whether to stop reading, or to continue. The server that collects the money could be run by a bankish sort of company like Paypal (shudder!) and would make statistics available on how many continued to read the book past the free pages. This would give an indication of acceptability. Users of p2p networks can currently attach comments to a download, so that provides a built-in review mechanism. Authors would always have a choice about whether to go the DRMp2p route or the pBook conventional route, or both. Readers would have the same choice.

[JSWolf]

Sony has a pretty good DRM. If a friend wants to read a book I've purchased, just authorize it with my account, download, install on the reader and read. When done, authorize that reader back to the owner's account and delete book of mine as it no longer will work. That way, I can loan out books without them being kept since they won't be readable once the reader is reauthorized with the original account.

[mogui]

In this thread Neko suggests advertising to support author royalties!

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by mogui

I want to be clear that I am advocating changing the purpose of DRM.

You are proposing nothing of the sort. You are still saying that DRM is used to "protect" content from "piracy" by locking the content up. You are still treating the reader as an attacker.

Originally Posted by mogui

It would be a universal standard available to authors to use to gain compensation for their works.

Then it cannot work because you've given the people who would pirate the content the diagram of the lock, and the key.

Originally Posted by mogui

An author would use a public key while the reader would use a private key tied to an account on a server. Some open-source genius could write this protection mechanism in a week. All books under this system would be freely available peer-to-peer.

The reader MUST have the private key in order to unlock the content so you can read it. The reader is a "universal standard". Therefore, the key can be recovered from reader. So we are back to "not protected."

The only way to "protect" content is to not make a "universal standard" and keep the method of locking up the content closed and proprietary. Which locks readers into a particular piece of software.

Originally Posted by mogui

rlauzon, your concerns are valid when applied to the current system, but I am wondering if your statistical references can be applied to a new standard.

What new standard? You've proposed none.

You are either using a "universal standard" which is removed from the content 10 seconds after its published.
Or you are using a closed standard, which locks you into a reader (or, like most DRM, is broken 30 seconds after the content is published).

Originally Posted by mogui

Try looking at this from the point of view of the writer.

This is not a writer issue. We've already proven that those authors who have good content get rewarded. Those who don't, don't.

DRM does not benefit writers. DRM only makes publishers feel better. DRM 1) makes eBooks cost more, 2) makes eBooks less useful to readers and 3) eventually pisses off readers.

Originally Posted by mogui

What if the new author could self-encrypt his work and put it on one or more peer-to-peer networks?

By encrypting his work, he is limiting the number of people who can read his work. So he's simply shooting himself in the foot.

Originally Posted by mogui

He could allow a free read of the first X pages (he decides) to help his marketing.

He can do that easier by simply releasing the first X pages in an unencrypted format - just like John Scalzi did with The Android Dream.

[mogui]

I can understand that DRM is not popular. But from an author's point of view, releasing months of hard creative work into the hackey-crackey universe isn't too interesting either. What to do?

You can take any combination of the following positions:
1. I (love/hate/am indifferent to) DRM.
2. I think DRM has a use somewhere/DRM is as useless as **** on a *******.
3. I like entertaining new ideas about this issue/I just want to shoot you!
4. I want to play with these ideas/I couldn't possibly care any less.

Any combination of results is a respectable position as far as this forum is concerned. Writing here and reading your comments is exciting to me because we can share ideas (many excellent ones) from all over the world. Heck, that is even better than the coffee house at my old alma mater.

I don't take a hard position on any of this. I like to play with ideas and enjoy the challenge of other minds. I try to offer substantiation where I am able in the form of links and visuals. I am not going to drop everything and launch into a development project over DRMp2p (unless somebody drops a grunch of money on me), because I am basically retired. If someone sees an opportunity here, they are welcome to it. To me, this is merely an exploration of what is possible.

I hope we can all enjoy the thought experiments here. If you think of a way to make something work better, jump in! The example of open-source shows us that many minds are far better than one alone. Synergy is the engine of evolution.

[delphidb96]

Mogui,

Think of it like this. No amount of DRM is going to protect the author from someone who checks the book out of the library - using interlibrary loan if necessary - slaps it on an OpticBook book scanner and creates a text or pdf file from the result. Thus, for the low, low price of a used OpticBook scanner, the person who wants to get around buying DRM'd ebooks can do so to his/her heart's content. And then that person can post the ebook on IRC, bittorrent, etc. and 'share' it with the rest of the e-world.

And, given that so *many* people detest DRM, the likelihood of a person doing so rises exponentially if the book is released as an ebook *with* DRM. Oops. Readers 1, DRM 0.

Derek

[mogui]

Yes Derek,
I think we are seeing evolution in action. The generative force of the universe, in it's innate cleverness, is telling us how things will be. I am only trying to trick mother nature (I know it is not nice).

I have mostly given up my writing aspirations, as it is not a viable vocation. Sometimes I like to think of a way to make it work better for writers, but it is an uphill battle. I was an engineer for a long time, so it is natural for me to attempt technical solutions.

[delphidb96]

Mogui,

Writing is quite the viable occupation. However, it's not necessarily the 'wealth-generating' occupation - for most authors - that it has been portrayed in so many movies and TV shows. If you ask John Ringo, David Weber and Eric Flint - all of whom have been writing pre-ebook and post-ebook - they'll tell you that while ebook sales haven't made them 'wealthy', having ebook versions out there *have* acted as advertisement for their printed works. Needless to say, all these authors have their works released sans DRM.

If you want to look for why authors haven't been getting rich from ebook sales, place the blame squarely where it belongs - on the backs of the same publishers who fail, time and again to fully market many of their mid-list authors and who, as far as ebooks are concerned, put more effort into making as difficult as possible for the end customers to enjoy the ebooks than into generating customer awareness of new releases.

Yet you take the side of the publishers with all this 'universal DRM' garbage - and wonder why writing isn't a 'viable vocation'. Hello! Free marketplace here to tell you that when your own publishers shaft you on marketing, product pricing and ease of access by your putative customers, you're going to have crappy sales figures.

And, as I have discovered for myself, (being a writer - but not a *published* novelist/author as only my non-fiction has reached print) readers want *interesting* stories, but with the plethora of works being released each *MONTH* it is hard for them to find out about *new* authors if they don't hear about them. Plus, as we're so often told in the job-seeking and dating processes - FIRST IMPRESSIONS COUNT! If I don't grab their attention with my very first novel, many readers won't come back for seconds.

Derek

[yvanleterrible]

If a book is DRM'd I'll resort to buying a paper copy. I find that limiting oneself to an ereader is kind of childish unless there is good reason to do so such as type size for sight impairment or portability in travelling. (there are other good ones too) I still prefer the option of reselling a book if It's possible.

[mogui]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Yet you take the side of the publishers with all this 'universal DRM' garbage - and wonder why writing isn't a 'viable vocation'. Hello! Free marketplace here to tell you that when your own publishers shaft you on marketing, product pricing and ease of access by your putative customers, you're going to have crappy sales figures.

I have been advocating bypassing the publishers. I envision a mechanism that allows readers to publish via p2p, which of course they are free to do now sans DRM. I would like to see the author in control of all these issues.

Originally Posted by delphidb96

And, as I have discovered for myself, (being a writer - but not a *published* novelist/author as only my non-fiction has reached print) readers want *interesting* stories, but with the plethora of works being released each *MONTH* it is hard for them to find out about *new* authors if they don't hear about them. Plus, as we're so often told in the job-seeking and dating processes - FIRST IMPRESSIONS COUNT! If I don't grab their attention with my very first novel, many readers won't come back for seconds.

What is your feeling about putting a lot of effort into a work of fiction? Do you do so with optimism? Does being immersed in the writing process give you pleasure? How would you publish your fiction?

I enjoy the work of Lawrence Block. He has the ability to write a book a month, or more, if he chooses. He is a writing machine! I acknowledge his tenacity, but I can't help thinking that the writing process is a lot easier for some.

I agree that to be a popular author you need to publish frequently to sustain reader loyalty. There are some who take a few years between novels. My habit is to find an author I like and read everything she has written. The others that are still writing, I follow faithfully.

[delphidb96]

Mogui,

For the first question, p2p releases, as you say, are already out there. And the author already has the power to 'take control' of electronic publishing, just look at all the micro-publishers out there on the Internet.

As for putting effort into a work of fiction, my philosophy is if you don't want to put maximum effort into the story, then you shouldn't be writing it. Either set it on the back burner until you regain interest or drop it completely - and get to work on another story. Most authors I've talked to say the same thing - if you're not thinking about other stories, collecting character info, putting plot snippets away or even writing a chapter or so, you're not keeping the creativity engine primed for the story you're most involved with.

And whatever you do - DON'T stop writing the story to go back and edit it! That waits until you get the final chapter written. I can say this because this is one of the things I learned while competing in both the 2005 and 2006 NaNoWriMo contests. I failed my 2005 attempt to write 50,000 words in one month because I got caught up with putting a polish on each chapter. I succeeded in 2006 because I refrained from doing the whole 'but is this chapter/paragraph/sentence good enough' syndrome.

Keep on writing.

Derek

Originally Posted by mogui

I have been advocating bypassing the publishers. I envision a mechanism that allows readers to publish via p2p, which of course they are free to do now sans DRM. I would like to see the author in control of all these issues.

What is your feeling about putting a lot of effort into a work of fiction? Do you do so with optimism? Does being immersed in the writing process give you pleasure? How would you publish your fiction?

I enjoy the work of Lawrence Block. He has the ability to write a book a month, or more, if he chooses. He is a writing machine! I acknowledge his tenacity, but I can't help thinking that the writing process is a lot easier for some.

I agree that to be a popular author you need to publish frequently to sustain reader loyalty. There are some who take a few years between novels. My habit is to find an author I like and read everything she has written. The others that are still writing, I follow faithfully.

[gingercat]

One of the mysteries is still why publishers don;'t seem to care what we do with pbooks. Are they too lazy? Is it just too hard for them?

Maybe they have latched onto ebooks because controlling the books is just so easy.

The irony is that many publishers aren't getting behind ebooks when u would think they would try to get everyone to use them so they can restrict lending & copying of books and theyby increase sales.

Just a thought - An elibrary using DRMed books would work quite well I would have thought.

[igorsk]

Actually, they do care. They would like very much to prevent sales of used books and force everyone who wants to read a book to buy their own new copy. I beleive in 1900s all books carried a notice basically forbidding resale without permission (can't find the exact wording ATM). However, this was later decided illegal in the court when the first-sale doctrine was established.

[nekokami]

I had an email exchange with a fantasy & mystery author a couple of years ago who was quite irritated that Amazon was encouraging people to sell used copies of books still in print.

My suggestion: set up a web page with an Amazon Associate account and get your own nickel back from every book sold through your site. It won't come to so much for used books, but it's still something. (I'm given to understand that the Amazon commission is actually more per book than authors are paid by the publisher, for new books.)

I'd like to set up a website someday especially for authors to be able to talk about and sell their own books online, using these sorts of affiliate programs. I still haven't worked out how to validate identity, though.

[Lemurion]

Before I start, I'm going to work within the premise that the DRM supporting reader is a closed architecture that relies on a single proprietary reader application. This application would support its own protected format, and some number of unprotected formats, preferably including an unprotected version of its own format.

If everything worked perfectly, and the device supported my preferred formats, I might well buy it, provided it was significantly less expensive than the other device. Part of my reasoning for this is that I am taking more of a risk with this device than the other. First, there is likely to be a performance overhead for the DRM functionality. Second, as we've seen with Mobipocket recently, there can be issues with DRM servers. Another issue is that there's no guarantee it would continue supporting the other formats, and with a closed architecture a third-party application may not be available should the company reconsider support for a given file type.

I'm more concerned about DRM-restricted content than DRM capable hardware, but all else being equal I would be more likely to go for the non-DRM hardware.