Worst case customer handling?!

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

Sure, one can argue that it's meant for "business" only, but why would iRex want to artificially limit your market.. Academia is a fairly rich market too, considering their spending habits on other things.

I imagine they'd consider Academia to be, if not a "business" environment, certainly a professional one, so they wouldn't be trying to edge them out at all.




I also should add that I completely understand the feelings of being, as you put it, "duped." It's perfectly normal to feel that way, and I've been in the that position myself more than a few times myself.

I've just reached a point where I can be a bit philosophical about it because I've seen it happen enough times to more or less expect to be caught this way from time to time.

That doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic to your feelings and reactions, just that I have a different view of such things, that's all.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by henrikb

I agree that it may seem smart but its only in the very short term. You will recover 95% of the sales 1/2 year later - probably at a higher price point and without disgruntled customers.

But in the meantime it can be hard to keep the lights on, which in many cases can mean that there will be no more sales at any price point.

[zerospinboson]

I doubt that, considering everyone has to pay iRex royalties for the display controllers.. OTOH, if a report on sub-standard customer care were to hit slashdot, iRex would be in far more trouble, i imagine. Potential future sales being as important as they are, and all.

[ppxnouse]

considering everyone has to pay iRex royalties for the display controllers.

Really, who licenses their controller ? (Not doubting your word -Just curious)

[henrikb]

to NatCh:
In term of trade shows, I was referring any gadget that has been previewed. Also, I don't mind initial launches (like kindle and sony500) coming out of nowhere as there is no installed base of customers to take care of.

The thing about Gen1-->2 - what I meant is that it is a lot worse to be left with a Gen1 production when Gen2 comes than to be left with Gen8 when Gen9, the reason being that Gen1 is often premature. Hence, customers will get very frustrated when suddenly Gen2 comes out of nowhere. For Gen9 to come out of nowhere, on the other hand, is fine because Gen8 probably is very good.

But I see your point, it may be that such generally products come out of nowhere - and even though I find it very frustrating - I can deal with it. Just as I can deal with not having hibernation etc.

The thing that I have strong issues with, however, is that suddenly the iLiad feels left dead cold. And I think that a lot of people purchasing the iLiad in the last 6 months feel the same.

Regarding iRex' B2B focus - I wasn't told anything about that when I shelled out 700€ for the iLiad. The day you start selling to customers, you can't defend yourself by afterwards claiming B2B focus.

Regarding the USB analogy: What I'm asking for in terms of support is to me the same as that nVidia should update the drivers to their graphics cards to make sure that bugs are ironed out. It's not much - and it should be the bare minimum.

All in all, I still love my iLiad but it's just not ready yet.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

I doubt that, considering everyone has to pay iRex royalties for the display controllers....

I believe you're mistaken on that point -- Philips (from which iRex spun off) has rights to develop and license e-Ink displays (I believe it may only be exclusive to Europe, not sure on that point). PVI (located in Taiwan) is the only maker of the displays, at present (including the ones iRex uses), with e-Ink Inc. holding the patent on the displays themselves.

I don't see how iRex gets any royalties in that situation ....

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by henrikb

The thing that I have strong issues with, however, is that suddenly the iLiad feels left dead cold. And I think that a lot of people purchasing the iLiad in the last 6 months feel the same.

I'm sure they do, I've been there myself, not with an iLiad, but still. It feels pretty crummy, even if you do half expect it to happen.

Originally Posted by henrikb

Regarding iRex' B2B focus - I wasn't told anything about that when I shelled out 700€ for the iLiad. The day you start selling to customers, you can't defend yourself by afterwards claiming B2B focus.

Their B2B focus has been there since the beginning, way back in 2006. When they first allowed themselves to be arm-twisted into selling the iLiads to individuals in June of that year, they required a formal, written statement that each buyer acknowledged that the device was still beta.

In the intervening time they haven't squawked all that much about the B2B side of things, but I think that's partly because they let all the individual consumers distract them from it, and they likely lost sight of the fact that folks who came to e-ink devices fresh in the meantime (as I'm guessing you did) wouldn't have any way to already know about their B2B thing.

I know that's doesn't keep it from being as frustrating as all get out, but at least it's an oversight rather than a deliberate deception.

Originally Posted by henrikb

Regarding the USB analogy: What I'm asking for in terms of support is to me the same as that nVidia should update the drivers to their graphics cards to make sure that bugs are ironed out. It's not much - and it should be the bare minimum.

I'd agree with you there completely -- if they're going to continue selling the iLiad, they ought to continue to improve the existing firmware for it, in as much as the hardware itself permits. That's always the kicker, isn't it?

Originally Posted by henrikb

All in all, I still love my iLiad but it's just not ready yet.

I'm glad that you can still see the things that made you choose it in the first place. That's something, at least.

[henrikb]

The P&L of iRex is none of my concern and whether they get royalties or not is uninteresting for me.

What I care about is that I bought a REALLY expensive piece of equipment with great potential but premature and a few months later the project seems to effectively get closed and a new project launches. So then I scream and stomp and shout to make them hear me - simply because it feels unfair.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by henrikb

The P&L of iRex is none of my concern and whether they get royalties or not is uninteresting for me.

What I care about is that I bought a REALLY expensive piece of equipment with great potential but premature and a few months later the project seems to effectively get closed and a new project launches. So then I scream and stomp and shout to make them hear me - simply because it feels unfair.

I understand what you're getting at.

I think ppxnouse was trying to point out that if iRex had shut down because of a drop in sales due to a premature announcement, there would have been no further iLiad firmware improvements, no more iLiad repairs, and no new DR series at all.

However likely it was or wasn't in this particular case, doesn't necessarily dictate how the iRex marketing folks might have seen the situation, and they're the ones who get to make the call in such situations.

[nekokami]

I'm quite disturbed about the DR1000 FAQ, because even a couple of months ago iRex was still promising the new viewer that would support all formats, and I think some of the community developers have held back on spending a lot of effort on iPDF enhancements or creating a combination version because they believed iRex was going to come out with a new viewer.

I've had my iLiad for a year and a half, and I'm not sorry I have it, but I don't think iRex is treating iLiad customers very well here if they don't come out with further enhancements for the iLiad. There are still a lot of unkept promises, and I don't like to see them diving into a new product with those promises still out there.

I also note that they are promising better power management "later." We heard that promise plenty of times with the iLiad in the early days, before they finally admitted that their hardware design wouldn't support sleep or hibernate modes. I'd recommend being very cautious about buying a DR1000 assuming that the power management problems will be addressed. If the current functionality of the device will meet your needs, fine, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone buy an iRex device on the basis of any future development promises.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by henrikb

I'm saying that the wireless feature of the iLiad was useless

I use the wireless feature a lot on mine. That's how I sync documents between it and the PC. I hardly ever use the USB connection.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by henrikb

I agree that it may seem smart but its only in the very short term. You will recover 95% of the sales 1/2 year later - probably at a higher price point and without disgruntled customers.

Do you think that a small company with a single product line can afford to wait 1/2 year before their revenue stream recovers? If they tried that, they'd likely be out of business before the 1/2 year.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by ppxnouse

Really, who licenses their controller ? (Not doubting your word -Just curious)

Pretty much everybody. The only eInk device I know of which doesn't use an iRex controller is the Sony PRS-505. I don't know how long they can survive on controller licenses alone though, without the iLiad revenue.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by NatCh

I believe you're mistaken on that point -- Philips (from which iRex spun off) has rights to develop and license e-Ink displays (I believe it may only be exclusive to Europe, not sure on that point). PVI (located in Taiwan) is the only maker of the displays, at present (including the ones iRex uses), with e-Ink Inc. holding the patent on the displays themselves.

I don't see how iRex gets any royalties in that situation ....

There are two main components that go into producing a display, a screen and a controller. E-Ink has a patent on the screen, iRex designed the controller. PVI manufacturs them, but they didn't design the parts.

Think of it like a monitor with a built in video card. E-Ink created the monitor, iRex created the video card.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by NatCh

I'd agree with you there completely -- if they're going to continue selling the iLiad, they ought to continue to improve the existing firmware for it, in as much as the hardware itself permits. That's always the kicker, isn't it?

They have said that while they don't have anything planned right now, they do expect there to be firmware updates for the iLiad. However, they've also said that there will not be "new functionality", whatever that means. Depending on how you interpret that, it could mean that there will only be bug fixes, or it could mean they'll continue to improve current functionality, but no major new features (like viewers for new document types, etc). It's hard to tell at this point.