Is Grammar Really That Important Any More?

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Consider email and posts to forums like MR. How many times have we read a post and misinterpreted the writer's intent because the cues to tell us the intent were missing or poorly expressed? We often impose a tone to a post that may not be the tone intended, for example, thinking a post was intended to be insulting and snide when the poster had no such intent whatsoever.

O.K. It's a fair cop guvnor. Guilty as charged.

[dadioflex]

"The Coon Rolled Down and Ruptured His Larinks, A Squeezed Novel by Mr. Skunk" is a story by David ab Hugh, I go back to time and again. That and a "Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess. One is told from the viewpoint of mutated animals, while the other uses a dense argot for most of the dialogue - but they both follow the rules of grammar, even if it's an internal grammar.

If there's a reason not to use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation then I'll keep an open mind. If there isn't, well I'll probably still keep an open mind, but you're likely burning my goodwill.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

But for someone who crawls under an RV and adjusts the breaks, ending his written sentences with a preposition should NOT have made a difference.

Do you mean adjusts the breaks in hoses or adjusts the brakes that stop the vehicle?

I would assume from context that you mean the latter, but it is as reasonable to assume you mean the former and not the latter (or you could mean both). Why should I have to assume or guess? Why not require clarity in communication?

The point is that yes, one needs to put things in context and look beyond the surface. If I'm looking to hire a plumber, I want to hire a well-trained plumber and I do not care whether he can quote Shakespeare. OTOH, it is not sufficient that he be well-trained as a plumber because when he hands me that bill for $1,000, he needs to be able to communicate clearly to me why the bill is so high.

It is easier for people to look beyond to the context than to apply rules of grammar and so rather than trying to learn grammar and master communication skills along with the context skills, they resist learning grammar and rely on context. This can work some of the time, but not all of the time.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Of course I hire people into potions were details matter.
. . .
I do not except a mechanic to be an English major

Are these "potions" "were" casting grammatically correct spells is important?

Do you "except" mechanics from being anything?

[HarryT]

I would expect a mechanic to be able to write a legible inspection report for a vehicle. In that context, mistaking "brakes" and "breaks" could be pretty important.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Are these "potions" "were" casting grammatically correct spells is important?

Do you "except" mechanics from being anything?

Which is why I hire an editor for my books! It is also why I have people review my resumes!



Now if I was arguing against an editor, that post would have been much funnier.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by rhadin

The point is that yes, one needs to put things in context and look beyond the surface. If I'm looking to hire a plumber, I want to hire a well-trained plumber and I do not care whether he can quote Shakespeare. OTOH, it is not sufficient that he be well-trained as a plumber because when he hands me that bill for $1,000, he needs to be able to communicate clearly to me why the bill is so high.

Please Richard don't get them started on plumbers, we've only just weaned them off of mechanics!

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

Please Richard don't get them started on plumbers, we've only just weaned them off of mechanics!

What about dog catchers and sanitation engineers?

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

What about dog catchers and sanitation engineers?

Well..... dog catchers are barking mad anyway and sanitation engineers talk sheeet, or is that linen manufactures?

I swear, sometimes you guys need a white stick to keep you on topic.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Do you mean adjusts the breaks in hoses or adjusts the brakes that stop the vehicle?

Either or... The fact is, you understood the point I was making. It had nothing to do with the specifics of the mechanics work, only that he was highly qualified to perform it. I guess my spelling mistake didn't do anything more than give people fodder 'to pick at.' Or would folks be more comfortable if I said 'at which to pick?' You understood what I was saying, and that is all some communication needs to do.

Originally Posted by HarryT

I would expect a mechanic to be able to write a legible inspection report for a vehicle. In that context, mistaking "brakes" and "breaks" could be pretty important.

I would exoect it too, if that were part of his job. But it wasn't. The shop didn't do inspections. It did installations and repairs, and the mechanic had all the skills needed to perform them. He had no need to read, write, nor interact with customers. Unfortunately, because the owner of the shop passed up the opportunity to hire good help because of poor spelling and grammar, and what was left in the area to be hired didn't do much for the reputation of the repair shop, he really lost out in the long run.

There are times to be and times not to be. Reading that CV for the mechanic he needed was a time NOT to be so grammatically demanding. Same can be said for putting down a good book because of a few grammatical errors. I've noticed several people here during the past couple of years talking about stopping what I found to be a very good book because they became upset over poor proofreading. It's called 'shooting yourself in the foot.' My friend did it, and eventually lost his business. He hired a mechanic who could spell instead of twist a wrench.

Wasn't there a book called "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff - and It's ALL Small Stuff?"


Stitchawl

[Justin Nemo]

Bad grammar has been around for years, but it seems that because the author is established, we over look it. Jane Austin in her book Emma: A mechanics guide to billing, contains so many grammatically incorrect statements that there is not enough space here to list them all. However, I couldn't resist quoting a few:

Emma Woodhouse's reported thoughts:
"for they say every body is in love once in their lives, and I shall have been let off easily."

Narrator:
"[Mr. Woodhouse] was happily placed, quite at his ease, ready to talk with pleasure of what had been achieved, and advise every body to come and sit down, and not to heat themselves."
Frank Churchill [on Box Hill]:

"I say nothing of which I am ashamed ... Let every body on the Hill hear me if they can."
Narrator's rephrasing of Emma Woodhouse's comments on the birth of Mrs. Weston's daughter:
"and Mrs. Weston -- no one could doubt that a daughter would be most to her; and it would be quite a pity that any one who so well knew how to teach, should not have their powers in exercise again."

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

Emma Woodhouse's reported thoughts:
"for they say every body is in love once in their lives, and I shall have been let off easily."

What do you perceive to be wrong with that? It looks fine to me.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

Well..... dog catchers are barking mad anyway and sanitation engineers talk sheeet, or is that linen manufactures?

I swear, sometimes you guys need a white stick to keep you on topic.

Topics are not concrete barriers, they are more of meandering streams.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Do you mean adjusts the breaks in hoses or adjusts the brakes that stop the vehicle?

Taking a second look at this, I realize that your intention was to provoke and inflame rather than discuss. In which culture do people adjust holes in hoses? When I said "someone who crawls under an RV and adjusts the breaks," there was no misunderstanding on your part, nor any confusion. You understood perfectly.

I would assume from context that you mean the latter, but it is as reasonable to assume you mean the former

On which planet would this be reasonable. Have you ever hired a mechanic to adjust holes in hoses? Has anyone, anywhere at any time hired a mechanic to crawl under a car and adjust holes that shouldn't be there?

No... your real intentions are showing.


Stitchawl

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

In which culture do people adjust holes in hoses?

Being entirely ignorant of the workings of the oily bits of cars, I can well imagine that one might adjust the size of a hole to set the rate at which something flows through it?