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Old 01-30-2011, 09:31 AM   #61
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Thank you for the tip
I am a huge PG Wodehouse fan and wanted to have his collected works for a very long time. They are not available on the Asia Pacific store....
I registered a US address for a short time and purchased the complete collection (96 works). I am a very happy bunny now
Trouble is, you were breaking the law in doing so.

Wodehouse is ONLY in the public domain in the US - nowhere else. You're breaking copyright law in downloading them from Amazon US, because they can only be sold within the US. That may not bother you, but Amazon have to be concerned about such legalities.

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Old 01-30-2011, 12:08 PM   #62
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The legallity of that is a bit laughable considering the fact that the restriction is based on the ground you're stepping in. I don't mean that llaw is something to laugh at, but we're in front of a very simple case of something that should be revised and adapted to new times. Internet is something relatively old already, they had time to adapt.

I understand all the copyright issues, but the fact is that we're not forbidden to buy the books for any specific reason inherent of ourselves, like not having the US nationality or not being part of a specific "club" designed to grant the "privilege" of buying those books, we're forbidden to buy them because we're standing in a different country at the moment.

It's true that we cheat, but the point is that the cheat we do is because of a very retarded and stupid reason based on a selfish conservative way to see the market. I mean, I'm spanish from the south of the country. I live near Gibraltar, which is UK territory. I can't buy some UK website books because I'm spanish (no, it's because I'm in spain), but if I take my bike and I go to Gibraltar, something that for me doesn't cost to much, technically I'm "in the UK" so I can purchase those books.

Now take the opposite example: you're american and you decide to do a trip of 2 weeks to France (for example). You have your Kindle registered in an US address, so you CAN buy US books, but technically you're going against the rules too, you're NOT in the States.

Third example: It's my birthday. I have an US friend who wants to buy me an eBook to my Kindle because he knows I'm a huge book fan, but he can't do because several reasons: 1) Even if he sends me a gift card, I couldn't buy the book, 2) due to DRM issues he can't buy it and then send it to me unless we use more "illegal" resources to take off the DRM, 3) if I temporally register that Kindle to his account and then back, that's not too "legal" either according to Amazon. BUT of course he can buy the paperbook and send it by mail.

I don't know how to express how really ridiculous the situations appear to my eyes. As I said, Internet is not part of a country. Internet would be more of a country itself. It would make much more sense to have editorials specifically for eBooks based on languages, or force any editorial that buys the rights to make a digital version of its books to open the online market to everybody and suck it up.

Seriously, when I think about this I can't help but think about a parallelism. It's like if we still had laws for traffic and driving designed for donkeys and horses despite driving already Ferraris, and instead of adapting the law and market to cars, they kept punishing cars for going over 20 kms/h because they're going faster than a donkey.

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Old 01-30-2011, 03:55 PM   #63
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The distribution rights of ebooks for personal use is not covered by current legislation in Australia. They simply haven't kept up. Wodehouse books in HTML format are available online without any mention of restriction.

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Old 01-30-2011, 03:59 PM   #64
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The distribution rights of ebooks for personal use is not covered by current legislation in Australia. They simply haven't kept up.
"Not covered" in what sense, Pushka? Surely eBooks are covered by copyright law, which I believe is pretty much the same as it is in Britain.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:02 PM   #65
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"Not covered" in what sense, Pushka? Surely eBooks are covered by copyright law, which I believe is pretty much the same as it is in Britain.
The legislation refers only to commercial interests. I will dig around again and find the source. I posted it in another forum so will bbl with it. It was referred to in a consumer publication and they said that the publishers had used this legislation erroneously in relation to ebooks.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:07 PM   #66
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The legislation refers only to commercial interests. I will dig around again and find the source. I posted it in another forum so will bbl with it. It was referred to in a consumer publication and they said that the publishers had used this legislation erroneously in relation to ebooks.
Publishers have no say in deciding what is or is not covered by copyright. It's the law that determines that. I'd certainly be interested in seeing the article you're referring to.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:07 PM   #67
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This is a secondary source for the moment:
http://bookbee.net/book-industry-sou...-rort-at-will/

The bottom line is that the legislation does not prevent individual consumers from obtaining ebooks anywhere.

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Old 01-30-2011, 04:14 PM   #68
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Publishers have no say in deciding what is or is not covered by copyright. It's the law that determines that. I'd certainly be interested in seeing the article you're referring to.
It is the publishers who are using this legislation and who are saying " we are unable to sell you this book because you live in Australia". But the legislation does not prevent 1 person individually buying it for their own use. And no, the publishers don't have a say in what falls under copyright but they can 'use' or 'misinterpret' the legislation to correctly, or otherwise, do what they want.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:17 PM   #69
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That article seems to be saying that geographical restrictions aren't the basis of any specific law. Sure, we all know that; they come about as a result of book distribution contracts. If a publishers signs a contract with an author which only grants them the right to sell the book in the UK, say, then they are not permitted to sell that book to anyone outside the UK. It has absolutely nothing to do with Australian law; it's a matter of contract law in the country that the publisher is in.

This is completely unrelated to copyright issues; the author of the article you linked to seems to be a little confused.

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Old 01-30-2011, 04:34 PM   #70
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That article seems to be saying that geographical restrictions aren't the basis of any specific law. Sure, we all know that; they come about as a result of book distribution contracts. If a publishers signs a contract with an author which only grants them the right to sell the book

This is completely unrelated to copyright issues.
The article is entirely relevant to the discussion of the availability of books across geographical boundaries.

Are you suggesting that authors contracts specifically exclude Australia in those situations where Amazon says it is unable to sell us the book? Hardly. Does it make sense to you that an author only wants his ebook published in USA but no, not Australia or say, the UK? Why on earth would an author want to do that? Copyright is about reproduction of someone else's work without permission. No-one here want to get the book for free from other sources, they simply want to get an ebook. Can you explain why we can get the paperback version of any book on the Amazon shelf, but not the ebook version? Because there are no restrictions, at all, in getting Amazon to send us a book to our Australian address. There is no separate legislation for ebooks. Therefore, if we can have the physical book sent to us, legally, then ditto for ebooks.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:42 PM   #71
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Are you suggesting that authors contracts specifically exclude Australia in those situations where Amazon says it is unable to sell us the book?
It's not a case of "specifically excluding" anywhere; Australia is not in a special position in this. If an author signs a UK-only contract with a publisher, then that publisher is not allowed to sell to anyone outside the UK.

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Does it make sense to you that an author only wants his ebook published in USA but no, not Australia or say, the UK? Why on earth would an author want to do that?
Because an author can make more money (often a LOT more money) by signing separate contracts with publishers in different countries. I'm afraid it all boils down to money.

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Can you explain why we can get the paperback version of any book on the Amazon shelf, but not the ebook version?
It's a question of the legal definition of the point of sale. For a paper book, because the bookstore physically has the book, the bookstore is considered to be the point of sale, hence the bookstore can sell the book to anybody. For an eBook, the customer's PC is considered to be the point of sale, so the bookstore CAN'T sell you the book if you're in "the wrong place". Do you really think that Amazon doesn't want to sell you the book? It's a stupid law, yes, but it is the law, and the bookstore has to obey it.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:58 PM   #72
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Do you really think that Amazon doesn't want to sell you the book? It's a stupid law, yes, but it is the law, and the bookstore has to obey it.
yes, of course Amazon wants to sell me those books. On that we agree.

You say that the point of sale is my PC, and what I am saying is that the legislation in Australia makes no discrimination between ebook and paperback for personal use.
Your point I think, is that it is the author who is preventing these books being sold 'across the world' because they have not agreed to ebook sales in all countries. But in most other discussions, mainly about Australia, the 'blame' has been put to Publishers, and here anyway, they are the ones coming out as the villains. If your proposition is correct, then why aren't authors getting the 'blame'?

I can understand authors like JK Rowlings who stop ebook production entirely, but it doesn't make sense they would say, publish my book in every country but only let USA people have the ebook version.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:08 PM   #73
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You say that the point of sale is my PC, and what I am saying is that the legislation in Australia makes no discrimination between ebook and paperback for personal use.
I'm afraid it's entirely irrelevent what Australian law says. If you buy from an American bookstore, it's US law that applies; if you buy from a British bookstore, UK law applies, and in both those countries, the law says that the point of sale for an eBook is the customer's location. The bookstore has no say in the matter; they have to obey the law in the country in which they are located.

Quote:
Your point I think, is that it is the author who is preventing these books being sold 'across the world' because they have not agreed to ebook sales in all countries. But in most other discussions, mainly about Australia, the 'blame' has been put to Publishers, and here anyway, they are the ones coming out as the villains. If your proposition is correct, then why aren't authors getting the 'blame'?
Because it's easier to blame the publishers as being big evil corporations, I'd guess. It honestly is the author who makes the decision about what rights to grant to the publisher.

I can understand authors like JK Rowlings who stop ebook production entirely, but it doesn't make sense they would say, publish my book in every country but only let USA people have the ebook version.[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:28 PM   #74
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It's a question of the legal definition of the point of sale. For a paper book, because the bookstore physically has the book, the bookstore is considered to be the point of sale, hence the bookstore can sell the book to anybody. For an eBook, the customer's PC is considered to be the point of sale, so the bookstore CAN'T sell you the book if you're in "the wrong place". Do you really think that Amazon doesn't want to sell you the book? It's a stupid law, yes, but it is the law, and the bookstore has to obey it.
What I consider hard to understand is how that hasn't been changed yet. I see the "logic", but the idea is completely flawed.

Buying a book from US by internet and buying an e-book is the freaking same. The buyer is at his/her computer at the other side of the world, the shop is on US "floor". I can't figure out how there can be people (specifically, who make these laws), that fails to understand how stupid it is, but I assume they don't have a Kindle and they never tried to buy a book outside their countries. The point of sale is still the shop in any case. Call it the book store shelf, or the book store servers", but the fact is that the book is there, "in" the shop.

But well, I understand that money is the answer to all this mess. It's just sad that greed affects even a field that is supposed to be populated by reasonable and intelligent people - readers. With this I don't mean that who doesn't read is silly, but I've seen not to many idiots that like books.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:31 PM   #75
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I'm afraid it's entirely irrelevent what Australian law says. If you buy from an American bookstore, it's US law that applies;
But you said this in an earlier post:

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For an eBook, the customer's PC is considered to be the point of sale,
but is anyone else having difficulty getting into their Amazon account. Or maybe it isnt off topic...
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