PRS 650 backordered till March 2011

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by merrygoblin

Sadly, the Wheel of Time series by the late Robert Jordan (and now Brandon Sanderson) is one example I found. I like the series but couldn't find the books in epub format anywhere (I can't download books for the reader from Google Books, that seems to be USA only so far, and I'm in the UK). They only seem to be available as paper books or in Kindle format from Amazon. I ended up getting the new one from Amazon and 'converting' it for use on my 650.

When he was alive, Jordan was opposed to electronic publication, which is why we're just now seeing them. Former Tor.com producer Pablo Defendini commented a while back that he was attending a Wheel of Time convention with Jordan's widow and editor, Harriet, and one of his goals was to convince her to lift the restriction so Tor could publish electronic editions. He was apparently successful, as they've been appearing one per month, but ePub versions lag the Kindle release. Patience...
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Dennis

[delphin]

Originally Posted by Ploni Almoni

I consider myself an avid reader and am very happy with my 650 (my 2nd, 1st being a 300).

I torrent most of my books, . . .

Yes, welcome to the forum, but please to not discuss outright piracy on this forum. I have noticed that MobileRead has a enlightened policy about discussions regarding DRM issues, where those issues prevent perfectly legitimate 'fair use' of your legally purchased book (like the example of transferring your purchased Kindle Book to a Sony reader).

I would not like to see the policy on discussions regarding these issues become become more restrictive, which they inevitably will if discussions of totally indefensible practices like outright piracy are allowed.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

They aren't available legally for any reader, because J. K. Rowling refused to license ebook rights. I've seen hints she might be coming around, and authorized editions might appear.
Dennis

Yes, I was aware of this. I was just poking a little fun at the Amazon groupies who claim that EVERYTHING is available on Kindle.

I saw an interview with Rowling, and sadly, she seems to be the kind of person that, no matter how many millions or billions her books generate in sales, she will always be insecure and fixated on money. Doesn't matter if you are a billionaire if you are still 'po white trash' in your own mind.

My guess is that when she first started using a word processor, it was with a ripped off copy of MS Word, Word Perfect, or some such, which clued her into just how vulnerable digital media is, and made her resolve to never let herself be ripped off the same way.

Did she really think that she could also ban the sales of computers scanners and OCR software?

Her insecurity and greed has only caused her to loose millions of potential sales, because when you enter something like "Harry Potter ebook" into any major search engine, instead of being directed to Amazon, B&N, Google Books, or Kobo to buy the ebooks legally, you find instead links to fan sites discussing how to get them from P2P, Usenet, etc.

If she had been a little more tech savvy, she would have realized that, where software companies stopped using 'copy protection' years ago, ebooks are still protected by reasonably effective DRM (resonably effective being defined as encouraging the majority of people to play by the rules).

Her stubbornness, has done NOTHING to stop the piracy of her books, only prevented her from also recieving royalties from legitimate ebook sales.

Since we have drifted somewhat from the thread topic let me tie this into the whole debate about the PRS-650, vs. web enabled devices like the PRS-950, Kindle 3, Nook, Kobo WiFi reader etc.

If you do own one of these web linked devices, and have pirated material on your reader, be aware that when you connect to the web THEY CAN SEE EVERY BOOK ON YOUR READER.

In one now famous incident, Amazon acted in true 'Big Brother' fashion to remove two books which violated copyrights from their customers Kindles.

Ironically, one of the books was George Orwell's 1984" . . .

“It was behind the picture,” breathed Julia.
“It was behind the picture,” said the voice. “Remain exactly where you are. Make no movement until you are ordered.”
“The house is surrounded,” said the voice.
“You may as well say good-bye,” said the voice. And then another quite different voice, a thin, cultivated voice which Winston had the impression of having heard before, struck in; “And by the way, while we are on the subject, ‘Here comes a candle to light you to bed, here comes a chopper to chop off your head’!”

So if you were wondering why the new Kindle 3 REALLY has a microphone and speakers, now you know.

[SolRaven]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But if you buy an exclusive eBook from Amazon, you are only legitimizing Amazon making exclusive deals. This is not good for eBooks in general as no one eBook store should have exclusive rights.

That's true, but I believe it hurts the author more than anyone. It's like having your house on the market and giving one broker an exclusive listing. The only people that will know your house is for sale are the salespeople in his office. Meanwhile, all the other brokers all over town have no idea your house is for sale, so they take their most excellent clients elsewhere.

Amazon won't have a monopoly forever, but we all owe them a little gratitude for making ebooks and ereaders competitive and for all the publicity of ebooks in any form. My Sony would probably still be $300 if Kindle hadn't dropped down to $179 last year, and there would not likely be as many books available digitally if it weren't for Amazon's push to do so.

Originally Posted by delphin

I saw an interview with Rowling, and sadly, she seems to be the kind of person that, no matter how many millions or billions her books generate in sales, she will always be insecure and fixated on money. Doesn't matter if you are a billionaire if you are still 'po white trash' in your own mind....

...Her insecurity and greed has only caused her to loose millions of potential sales, because when you enter something like "Harry Potter ebook" into any major search engine, instead of being directed to Amazon, B&N, Google Books, or Kobo to buy the books, you find instead links to fan sites discussing how to get them from P2P, Usenet, etc.

I got that impression of her as well. She seems so fearful of losing her money that she has not learned to appreciate her good fortune. Coincidently, I stumbled onto her 7 Potter books in ebook format and there was no way for me to purchase them. What's a girl to do when she wanted to include them on the ereader that she gave her nephew for Xmas?

[delphin]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

. . .
Amazon won't have a monopoly forever, but we all owe them a little gratitude for making ebooks and ereaders competitive and for all the publicity of ebooks in any form. My Sony would probably still be $300 if Kindle hadn't dropped down to $179 last year, and there would not likely be as many books available digitally if it weren't for Amazon's push to do so.

In general I am very impressed with Amazon, and will purchase almost any product from them, EXCEPT ebooks.

For ALL other products, Amazon competes head to head with other suppliers that they list on their site. So WHY is it that when I want a book for Kindle, I don't have the option to buy competitively from B&N, Borders, Kobo, Google Books, etc. ?

They are one of the BEST web sellers for head to head competitive listings on other products, but they are WORST for restrictive practices for the Kindle and Kindle Store.

Let's review -

Broders/Kobo/Sony/Google Books
(+) Their Readers work with Adobe compatible EPUB titles from other ebook sellers.
(+) Their Online Ebook Store will sell you a book compatible with other Readers (Nook, Kobo, Sony, Android Tablets are all Adobe EPUB compatible)

Barnes and Nobel
(+) Their Nook Readers work with Adobe compatible EPUB titles from other ebook sellers.
(-) Currently their Online Ebook Store only supports their own Nook Reader (though they have Nook Apps for some other non-ebook platforms)

Amazon
(-) Kindle can only buy DRM protected titles from Amazon.
(-) Currently their Kindle Store only supports their own Kindle Reader (though they have Kindle Apps for some other non-ebook platforms)

So Amazon has pretty much the worst-in-class restrictive policies.

I am not sure how much credit to give them for dropping the cost of ereaders because -

A) Prices were going to drop ANYWAY due to heavy competition from lots of slick Android based tablet devices.

B) Given how they have locked down and restricted their Kindle and Kindle Store, THEY SHOULD BE PRACTICALLY GIVING THE READERS AWAY. (after all, when a cell phone company has you locked into their network they will GIVE you a phone)

Of course, Amazon doesn't make you sign a contract, but for most folks who are not savvy enough to deal with the intricacies of DRM removal and ebook conversions, they are locked in just as effectively as if they had.

Given a choice, I will not buy from B&N or Amazon's Ebook Store until they support EPUB formatted titles for my Sony reader and have the same head-to-head competition for my business as the rest of the sites.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by delphin

I would not like to see the policy on discussions regarding these issues become become more restrictive, which they inevitably will if discussions of totally indefensible practices like outright piracy are allowed.

MR walks a delicate line. We're the biggest (100,000+ users) site devoted to ebooks and the related technology, so we err on the side of caution. People like authors, agents, and publishers read MR, and we can't be seen as condoning illegal actions. So we permit discussion of removing DRM, but prohibit direct links to the tools to do it. (Merely having such tools is illegal in some places.) And we remove direct links to pirated content, and may ban the user posting them.

Yes, I was aware of this. I was just poking a little fun at the Amazon groupies who claim that EVERYTHING is available on Kindle.

I saw an interview with Rowling, and sadly, she seems to be the kind of person that, no matter how many millions or billions her books generate in sales, she will always be insecure and fixated on money. Doesn't matter if you are a billionaire if you are still 'po white trash' in your own mind.

Yes, she came from mean circumstances, but my impression was that Rowling's motive had less to do with concerns over piracy, and more a perception that she was writing for kids, who might not have the ability to read an ebook. I don't think she ever expected the series would become equally popular among adults, nor that many readers would prefer an ebook edition over a paper copy.

I'll be pleased if she is brought to wisdom, but meanwhile, ebook copies are around on the darknet, produced by people willing to take the time to properly proof and format their work. I wouldn't be surprised if the pirate editions turn out to be better quality than whatever authorized versions finally appear.

In one now famous incident, Amazon acted in true 'Big Brother' fashion to remove two books which violated copyrights from their customers Kindles.

Ironically, one of the books was George Orwell's 1984" . . .

The real issue in that case was that it not only removed the book, but also the notes written by the student who was studying it for a class. Removing the book might be defensible, as Amazon didn't have the legal right to offer it. Removing the user's notes was another matter.
______
Dennis

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

I got that impression of her as well. She seems so fearful of losing her money that she has not learned to appreciate her good fortune. Coincidently, I stumbled onto her 7 Potter books in ebook format and there was no way for me to purchase them. What's a girl to do when she wanted to include them on the ereader that she gave her nephew for Xmas?

You may not agree with Ms. Rowling's choice BUT THE CHOICE IS HERS TO MAKE. I certainly don't think that you have the "right" to obtain the books illegally simply because an author makes a decision - a decision which they have every right to choose to make - not to release them as eBooks.

[SolRaven]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You may not agree with Ms. Rowling's choice BUT THE CHOICE IS HERS TO MAKE. I certainly don't think that you have the "right" to obtain the books illegally simply because an author makes a decision - a decision which they have every right to choose to make - not to release them as eBooks.

So how do you really feel Harry. Don't hold back. Please.

[doreenjoy]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

So how do you really feel Harry. Don't hold back. Please.

No danger of that.

[Billi]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

So how do you really feel Harry. Don't hold back. Please.

SolRaven, I really can't tell how Harry's post was meant, but it may be (theotically) possible, that it contained no personal feeling or opinion but a simple representation of the copyright law.

And as a matter of fact the author, and only the author, holds the right to decide, in which way his/her artwork can be distributed (or even if it will be distributed at all). He/she may not always decide wisely but we have to accept this decision. What do you think, who else should, in your opinion, decide this question?

Really not personally meant: It sometimes helps if one has accomplished something oneself or at least if someone is able to see the situation with the eyes of the other side. I'm more often than not astonished to learn what people think they are due to.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

So how do you really feel Harry. Don't hold back. Please.

I have told you how I feel about it: that the ONLY person who has the right to decide how to issue her books is the author. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

[Xanthe]

Originally Posted by delphin

My guess is that when she first started using a word processor, it was with a ripped off copy of MS Word, Word Perfect, or some such, which clued her into just how vulnerable digital media is, and made her resolve to never let herself be ripped off the same way.

I would think that you are spot on with that observation. She seems to know just enough to cut off her nose to spite her face, but not enough to use it to her own advantage. For all of the lost sales she obviously worried about losing via piracy, she probably lost just as many potential legitimate sales when her readers realized that she was never planning on making the books available thus, in some, removing the ethical block regarding downloading an ebook they probably already own in paper format.

I've got a friend with that level of technical disinterest. She wouldn't even connect her computer speakers - "What do I need them for?" she would ask me. This went on for years and years. She, a news junkie, finally discovered internet radio a few months ago and now she has her speakers hooked up. I, of course, was small enough to say to her, "I TOLD YOU SO!". LOL

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by delphin

In general I am very impressed with Amazon, and will purchase almost any product from them, EXCEPT ebooks.

For ALL other products, Amazon competes head to head with other suppliers that they list on their site. So WHY is it that when I want a book for Kindle, I don't have the option to buy competitively from B&N, Borders, Kobo, Google Books, etc. ?

You have to ask?

Amazon is a retailer in a commodity market where the main area of competition is price. In that sort of market, you may make pennies on a dollar, and your goal is to get as many dollars as possible to make pennies on. It's all about market share, and Amazon uses price, selection, service, and convenience to get you to buy from them, and a proprietary DRM scheme to try to prevent you from buying from anyone else. You can certainly buy and read content not encumbered by DRM from other sources, but if it is DRM encumbered, you must either buy from Amazon, or purchase elsewhere, strip DRM, and possibly convert format before you can read it. Amazon wants to be your sole source of purchased ebooks, and uses price, selection, service, and convenience to achieve it. Most Kindle users accept the trade off, because they get selection, price, and convenience they like, and don't see vendor lock-in as an imposition.

B&N is doing much the same with the nook for the same reasons. Sony and other reader manufactures are there to sell readers, and have no incentive to play that game. Amazon and B&N are retailers selling books, and do.

Tell me why Amazon should change policies to do as you desire? What's in it for them? They certainly won't see a benefit, and won't make the change.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I have told you how I feel about it: that the ONLY person who has the right to decide how to issue her books is the author. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

You don't recognize hyperbole when you see it?
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Dennis

[Puddleglum]

Though this thread was about the 650.

Ahem.

According to the local Borders store, they have been discontinued and can no longer be ordered.

"Are you certain? You have it listed on your website and Sony's website has them as well".

The second answer came back more forcefully "They have been DISCONTINUED by Sony, they are no longer making them. You CANNOT order them."

All of this was relayed by walkie talkie in the hands of an obviously frustrated clerk. I felt sorry for her. She gave me a bit of a "what can I tell you, the voice on the talkie has spoken" look. I gave her my thanks, went home and ordered one from Sony.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Though this thread was about the 650.

Ahem . . .

The second answer came back more forcefully "They have been DISCONTINUED by Sony, they are no longer making them. You CANNOT order them."

All of this was relayed by walkie talkie in the hands of an obviously frustrated clerk. I felt sorry for her. She gave me a bit of a "what can I tell you, the voice on the talkie has spoken" look. I gave her my thanks, went home and ordered one from Sony.

This kind of info, relayed from low level store personal, is often flat out wrong, but on the off chance that it is accurate, it may only mean that Borders itself has DISCONTINUED the item and is not planning to restock the Sony product, so they can push the Kobo reader or some other new Borders ereader product.

I just checked the SonyStyle Online Store and they still seem to be taking orders for the PRS-650.

On the other hand, it would not surprise me at all if Sony IS clearing out their stock of the 650, so they can introduce a new 6-inch screen 675 model with WiFi or 3G capabilities.

If so, I'm still happy to have snagged one of the 650's because I honestly do prefer that my reader NOT be web enabled.