Ipad Mini 6 jelly scrolling problem

hollowpoint · 10-16-2021, 03:33 AM

Ipad Mini 6 reportedly has an intrinsic, annoying display issue called 'jelly scrolling' in portrait mode, due to the vertical orientation of the controller that drives the display. Apple has said it's 'by design' and the hardware will not be changed. Some users find it annoying enough to return their Mini, others think it's acceptable.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021...olling-effect/

I was about to upgrade my Mini 5 to a Mini 6, but decided to wait one more generation. Put me down in the group that finds this annoying, especially in such a pricey tablet. As a lot of the articles on this issue have said, many/most tablets have this issue to some degree, but things like higher refresh rates, and orientation of the hardware on the board, can mitigate this problem for most users. Unfortunately it's more noticeable in the Mini 6.

ilovejedd · 10-16-2021, 07:36 PM

Have you actually tried the iPad mini 6 yourself?

I have one and I don't see it (jelly scroll) myself.

hollowpoint · 10-16-2021, 07:41 PM

Picked one up in local Apple store and observed. Also there are the tech videos online showing the problem in real time for those who don't have access to one.

As mentioned, not every user finds it troublesome. It also depends on how you use the device.

I can see it to a degree even on my Mini 5, but it's never been enough of a problem that I found it detrimental. Most Mini 5 users did not seem to find this issue troubling, but I'm hearing a lot more on the Mini 6.

ilovejedd · 10-16-2021, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowpoint

Picked one up in local Apple store and observed. Also there are the tech videos online showing the problem in real time for those who don't have access to one.

As mentioned, not every user finds it troublesome. It also depends on how you use the device.

I can see it to a degree even on my Mini 5, but it's never been enough of a problem that I found it detrimental. Most Mini 5 users did not seem to find this issue troubling, but I'm hearing a lot more on the Mini 6.

Yes, I was aware of the issue ever since the first Twitter post from Bohn. Again, not something I see. Even took a video and still don't see it in slo-mo.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads.../post-30363797

Honestly, it seems like it's only a big deal online while doing specific tests. Real world, I doubt most people would actually notice.

hollowpoint · 10-16-2021, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Yes, I was aware of the issue ever since the first Twitter post from Bohn. Again, not something I see. Even took a video and still don't see it in slo-mo.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads.../post-30363797

Honestly, it seems like it's only a big deal online while doing specific tests. Real world, I doubt most people would actually notice.

I disagree. You have Ipad fans including myself that although they WANT to buy the next-gen Ipad, are troubled enough by it that they are returning devices or holding off. I'm seeing reports of it everywhere in the tech press, user reviews on sites, at Amazon, etc.

The issue may not be bothersome to you, which is great. But it's real, folks aren't making it up.

ilovejedd · 10-16-2021, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowpoint

I disagree. You have Ipad fans including myself that although they WANT to buy the next-gen Ipad, are troubled enough by it that they are returning devices or holding off. I'm seeing reports of it everywhere in the tech press, user reviews on sites, at Amazon, etc.

The issue may not be bothersome to you, which is great. But it's real, folks aren't making it up.

Tech press. Exactly. When it makes it to the 6 o'clock news (like #batterygate and butterfly keyboard), then I would agree the issue is mainstream.

I'm not saying anyone is making this up. Just saying it's likely not as big a deal in the real world as it is on tech enthusiast sites. There are those who are sensitive to the issue but the general population likely won't even notice.

It's like PWM. I'm sensitive to PWM and can't use Apple's OLED iPhones but I'm guessing I'm in the minority since they're still selling hundreds of millions of OLED iPhones.

Almamida · 10-16-2021, 08:43 PM

Picked up an iPad mini and wasn’t bothered neither. People like to find the next thing to complain at every release of an Apple device. I don’t find it’s that much of a problem this time.

ilovejedd · 10-16-2021, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowpoint

Sample of one, that settles everything. Good thinking Mom.

I'll trust the combination of...the store samples I looked it, the IFixit techs who torn down the board and reported on the crossways mounting of the controller, and the concerns of hundreds of actual users. For example, a large number reporting in forums like this.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...lling.2313178/

I've seen that thread since the beginning and iirc, it's just the same 20 or so members complaining. I believe there are more posts on that thread of folks who aren't bothered or don't notice the issue. I'm guessing it'd be easier to find those hundreds who are bothered on reddit.

Heck, there was even a guy who wanted to open a class action lawsuit.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...lling.2315053/

Again, I'm not saying there's no jelly scroll. The thing is I'm guessing majority of iPad buyers just don't have the visual sensitivity to even notice this issue.

Hundreds or even thousands of complaints is kind of a drop in a bucket when compared to what is likely millions of iPad mini 6 Apple is selling.

hollowpoint · 10-17-2021, 03:02 AM

You're a loyal soldier, I'll give you that.

What bothers me is Apple's level of corporate denial: don't believe your lyin' eyes. It's a feature not a bug.

Honestly, phuck those guys. And I say that as a person who works at a tech company whose market capitalization exceeds the GDP of some first-world countries, and is guilty of throwing up the same type of BS smokescreens, at times.

ilovejedd · 10-17-2021, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowpoint

You're a loyal soldier, I'll give you that.

Not really. Just pragmatic.

For those affected/sensitive, at least the jelly scroll is something that's easily noticeable within the return period. Depending on how much it will cost to redesign the board/panel layout, it could possibly get fixed in the next generation.

Meanwhile, the bright spot that develops on 10.5" iPads after 12+ months is a result of a design defect and Apple really should've offered a repair program for that. Alas, 10.5" iPad owners out of warranty period are left out in the cold.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...creen.2115037/

OtinG · 10-18-2021, 03:49 PM

First, it probably is not an issue of the same magnitude on all iPad mini 6 units, only affecting some units badly enough to cause user complaints.

Secondly, it is important to understand that everyone has unique vision and some might not be distracted by jelly scrolling, while it might drive others nuts.

DuskyRose · 10-24-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OtinG

First, it probably is not an issue of the same magnitude on all iPad mini 6 units, only affecting some units badly enough to cause user complaints.

Secondly, it is important to understand that everyone has unique vision and some might not be distracted by jelly scrolling, while it might drive others nuts.

I've had a mini 6 for a couple of weeks, and have never seen it on anything. Not even on ebooks with scroll. Not even on large web pages. Hubby got his one day before I got mine, and he says he's never seen it.

The only time we've see it is on tv, with a web page, and trying to make it 'jelly'. So maybe it's something they caught in the early-early models. For us it's a complete non-issue so far.

OtinG · 10-24-2021, 11:28 AM

I suspect there is a tiny bit of jelly rolling with almost all similar types of displays, regardless of manufacturer, due to the way the screens are updated. From what I understand, the screens are updated line by line starting on one side of the display (when in portrait mode) and progressing across to the other side of the screen. If you took a super-slow motion video of the process it would be very noticeable. Under certain viewing conditions this process can make the line of pixels across the screen appear to be slanted for a fraction of a second. However, the process is happening so fast in real time our eyes rarely will perceive it on a good display.

I checked my iPad mini 5 after I heard of this on the mini 6 and under some lighting conditions with certain scrolling speeds I can see it, but it is not nearly as pronounced as in the posted videos. On my mini 5 I have to look for it to see it.

Video specs can also cause some strange things to happen due to frame rates. If you have ever seen a car wheel or a wagon wheel in a movie appear to switch from rotating forward to rotating backwards even when the car or wagon is still moving forward, that is due to the frame rates of the video being refreshed at just the wrong time to create that illusion. Same with video taken of airplane props when the airplane is in the air. You can see a lot of distortion. That is all due to the physics of how video camera shutters work. So whether the jelly rolling looks exactly like the videos is questionable as I've never seen it that bad in person, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is that bad in rare cases.

Having said that, for me I don't think the jelly rolling would be all that distracting for myself as I rarely scroll that fast, and when I do scroll fast it is usually for a very brief period of time. But for others, it might be quite a distraction.

My best guess is that there was a batch or more of the displays that were bad. That doesn't mean every display in the batch was necessarily bad, but some were. Hopefully if that is the case Apple will exchange those units. For those who are hesitant to buy a mini 6 because of this issue, they can go look at a unit in the store and decide if they want it or not. If one buys a mini 6 online, be sure to buy from a retailer with a good return policy. Some retailers like Amazon have a no questions asked return policy of around 15 or more days. Apple offers a return policy too for a few days.

hollowpoint · 10-28-2021, 04:57 PM

I am suggesting to anyone I know who wishes to read ebooks regularly on an Ipad Mini 6, to hold off and either consider getting a Mini 5 (which I have--and due to the controller being mounted the other way, has a low/minimal jelly scrolling issue), or look at other options.

OtinG · 10-29-2021, 01:43 PM

Even if a unit has jelly scroll issues, you can read ebooks by turning the whole page at a time rather than scrolling, which would render jelly scrolling a non-issue. Granted it might not be the preferential way someone wants to read, but it wouldn’t be affected at all by jelly scrolling. Web surfing though is going to be an issue, and any other app that uses scrolling.

I definitely agree that the iPad mini 5 is terrific for ebook reading. I love mine. And to be truthful, I find holding my iPad Air 2020 more difficult due to the tiny bezels. I keep activating stuff on the screen because there is no place to rest my thumb. I don’t have to worry about that on my iPad mini 5 though. I understand the allure of small bezels since they give you a bigger screen in the same over all size package as you get with larger bezels. But they make reading for me a bit harder. I would love to see an iPad mini with the larger bezel at the bottom keeping the button, and smaller bezels on the other three sides. For reading, I prefer a design like my Oasis 3 with a lot of bezel for my thumb on one side. Of course Apple will never build an iPad mini like that.

10-16-2021, 03:33 AM	#1
hollowpoint Groupie Posts: 155 Karma: 6672188 Join Date: Apr 2019 Device: Ipad Mini, Kindle PW5, Libra 2	Ipad Mini 6 jelly scrolling problem Ipad Mini 6 reportedly has an intrinsic, annoying display issue called 'jelly scrolling' in portrait mode, due to the vertical orientation of the controller that drives the display. Apple has said it's 'by design' and the hardware will not be changed. Some users find it annoying enough to return their Mini, others think it's acceptable. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021...olling-effect/ I was about to upgrade my Mini 5 to a Mini 6, but decided to wait one more generation. Put me down in the group that finds this annoying, especially in such a pricey tablet. As a lot of the articles on this issue have said, many/most tablets have this issue to some degree, but things like higher refresh rates, and orientation of the hardware on the board, can mitigate this problem for most users. Unfortunately it's more noticeable in the Mini 6. Last edited by hollowpoint; 10-16-2021 at 03:36 AM.

10-17-2021, 03:02 AM	#9
hollowpoint Groupie Posts: 155 Karma: 6672188 Join Date: Apr 2019 Device: Ipad Mini, Kindle PW5, Libra 2	You're a loyal soldier, I'll give you that. What bothers me is Apple's level of corporate denial: don't believe your lyin' eyes. It's a feature not a bug. Honestly, phuck those guys. And I say that as a person who works at a tech company whose market capitalization exceeds the GDP of some first-world countries, and is guilty of throwing up the same type of BS smokescreens, at times. Last edited by hollowpoint; 10-17-2021 at 03:12 AM.

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10-16-2021, 07:36 PM	#2
ilovejedd hopeless n00b Posts: 5,111 Karma: 19597086 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: in the middle of nowhere Device: PW4, PW3, Libra H2O, iPad 10.5, iPad 11, iPad 12.9	Have you actually tried the iPad mini 6 yourself? I have one and I don't see it (jelly scroll) myself.

10-16-2021, 07:41 PM	#3
hollowpoint Groupie Posts: 155 Karma: 6672188 Join Date: Apr 2019 Device: Ipad Mini, Kindle PW5, Libra 2	Picked one up in local Apple store and observed. Also there are the tech videos online showing the problem in real time for those who don't have access to one. As mentioned, not every user finds it troublesome. It also depends on how you use the device. I can see it to a degree even on my Mini 5, but it's never been enough of a problem that I found it detrimental. Most Mini 5 users did not seem to find this issue troubling, but I'm hearing a lot more on the Mini 6.

10-16-2021, 08:43 PM	#7
Almamida Guru Posts: 685 Karma: 11431990 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Toronto, Canada Device: Kobo Sage - Kindle PW5 & Voyage - iPad Pro M1 12.9	Picked up an iPad mini and wasn’t bothered neither. People like to find the next thing to complain at every release of an Apple device. I don’t find it’s that much of a problem this time.

10-18-2021, 03:49 PM	#11
OtinG Old Gadget Guy Posts: 1,906 Karma: 6854865 Join Date: Jun 2018 Device: Oasis 3, iPhone 13 Pro Max, iPad mini 6, iPad Air 2020, Alexa Devices	First, it probably is not an issue of the same magnitude on all iPad mini 6 units, only affecting some units badly enough to cause user complaints. Secondly, it is important to understand that everyone has unique vision and some might not be distracted by jelly scrolling, while it might drive others nuts.

10-24-2021, 11:28 AM	#13
OtinG Old Gadget Guy Posts: 1,906 Karma: 6854865 Join Date: Jun 2018 Device: Oasis 3, iPhone 13 Pro Max, iPad mini 6, iPad Air 2020, Alexa Devices	I suspect there is a tiny bit of jelly rolling with almost all similar types of displays, regardless of manufacturer, due to the way the screens are updated. From what I understand, the screens are updated line by line starting on one side of the display (when in portrait mode) and progressing across to the other side of the screen. If you took a super-slow motion video of the process it would be very noticeable. Under certain viewing conditions this process can make the line of pixels across the screen appear to be slanted for a fraction of a second. However, the process is happening so fast in real time our eyes rarely will perceive it on a good display. I checked my iPad mini 5 after I heard of this on the mini 6 and under some lighting conditions with certain scrolling speeds I can see it, but it is not nearly as pronounced as in the posted videos. On my mini 5 I have to look for it to see it. Video specs can also cause some strange things to happen due to frame rates. If you have ever seen a car wheel or a wagon wheel in a movie appear to switch from rotating forward to rotating backwards even when the car or wagon is still moving forward, that is due to the frame rates of the video being refreshed at just the wrong time to create that illusion. Same with video taken of airplane props when the airplane is in the air. You can see a lot of distortion. That is all due to the physics of how video camera shutters work. So whether the jelly rolling looks exactly like the videos is questionable as I've never seen it that bad in person, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is that bad in rare cases. Having said that, for me I don't think the jelly rolling would be all that distracting for myself as I rarely scroll that fast, and when I do scroll fast it is usually for a very brief period of time. But for others, it might be quite a distraction. My best guess is that there was a batch or more of the displays that were bad. That doesn't mean every display in the batch was necessarily bad, but some were. Hopefully if that is the case Apple will exchange those units. For those who are hesitant to buy a mini 6 because of this issue, they can go look at a unit in the store and decide if they want it or not. If one buys a mini 6 online, be sure to buy from a retailer with a good return policy. Some retailers like Amazon have a no questions asked return policy of around 15 or more days. Apple offers a return policy too for a few days.

10-28-2021, 04:57 PM	#14
hollowpoint Groupie Posts: 155 Karma: 6672188 Join Date: Apr 2019 Device: Ipad Mini, Kindle PW5, Libra 2	I am suggesting to anyone I know who wishes to read ebooks regularly on an Ipad Mini 6, to hold off and either consider getting a Mini 5 (which I have--and due to the controller being mounted the other way, has a low/minimal jelly scrolling issue), or look at other options.

10-29-2021, 01:43 PM	#15
OtinG Old Gadget Guy Posts: 1,906 Karma: 6854865 Join Date: Jun 2018 Device: Oasis 3, iPhone 13 Pro Max, iPad mini 6, iPad Air 2020, Alexa Devices	Even if a unit has jelly scroll issues, you can read ebooks by turning the whole page at a time rather than scrolling, which would render jelly scrolling a non-issue. Granted it might not be the preferential way someone wants to read, but it wouldn’t be affected at all by jelly scrolling. Web surfing though is going to be an issue, and any other app that uses scrolling. I definitely agree that the iPad mini 5 is terrific for ebook reading. I love mine. And to be truthful, I find holding my iPad Air 2020 more difficult due to the tiny bezels. I keep activating stuff on the screen because there is no place to rest my thumb. I don’t have to worry about that on my iPad mini 5 though. I understand the allure of small bezels since they give you a bigger screen in the same over all size package as you get with larger bezels. But they make reading for me a bit harder. I would love to see an iPad mini with the larger bezel at the bottom keeping the button, and smaller bezels on the other three sides. For reading, I prefer a design like my Oasis 3 with a lot of bezel for my thumb on one side. Of course Apple will never build an iPad mini like that.