Will K2PC 1.19 and KFX alter your ebook purchasing habits?

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by Barty

I'm not so sanguine that somehow, some way, someone will sort it out. Sometimes, people get tired and move away. Eventually, the "live DRM-free or die" crowd will, beg your pardon, die out, and there will be no-one left who chaff against the walled garden enough to do something about it.

Why did i♥cabbages crack Amazon's DRM? Because it was there. Amazon's protections weren't cracked out of spite or moral outrage or chafing at walled gardens. It was cracked for the challenge of cracking it.

It doesn't matter if the "live DRM-free or die" crowd fades away. They're not the driving force behind the creation of DRM removal tools. It's those who perceive DRM to be a challenge: "Try to break me! I dare you!" If DRM exists then someone will accept the challenge and break it.

So. I'm not worried.

[barryem]

I like buying my books from Amazon and I like reading them both on my Kindle and on my phone using Moon+ so I make sure I can do that. None of this is essential for me. If I had to use the Kindle app on my phone I'd be fine. I'm just glad I don't have to.

At 76 years of age I suspect Amazon will be around for my lifetime too. I sure hope so.

Barry

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Will this affect your ebook buying habits? Do you expect to go to vendors other than Amazon to get your books, and if so, what vendors will you use?

I prefer my base format to be EPUB, and most of the time, Kobo is cheaper for me in The Netherlands, especially if I get to apply a coupon.

However, I do still consider Amazon (sometimes they have books Kobo doesn't have), and purchase these books there. This has happened only four times though.

So, my purchasing habits will not change much, apart from the fact that I *won't* consider Amazon anymore if I can't un-DRM an ebook. For that to happen, I'd have to sell my old KPW1 (and thus it's serial number). I think my KPW1 will 'exist' forever, at least by its serial number, even if the device breaks. Thus, Amazon would need to stop supporting the KPW1 as a reader (which will take some years yet; AFAIK they still support the Kindle 1), and K4PC 1.17 would need to be abandoned by Amazon.

Because Amazon owns the readers, applications and formats, they can practically do whatever they want. Kobo, on the other hand, can't just switch over to Adobe's new DRM which was released with ADE 3.0, because *A LOT* of older readers don't support it, and e-readers stay in use for a long, long time. (If Kobo hadn't introduced a 7.8 inch reader, I would still be reading on my 2012 KPW1, and I only upgraded to that one from my Touch because of the light.)

ADE 3.x and 4.x can handle both the old and new DRM-schemes; it's the vendor who determines if a book uses the old or new scheme. Because so many old readers cannot use the new scheme, I think Kobo and the few remaining others will stay on the old scheme for quite some time to come, and thus ADE 2.01 will stay supported as well. Using that will make sure you never download a book using the new DRM-scheme.

So no, my purchasing habits won't change a lot because I don't buy a lot at Amazon.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Just don't get cranky when 90% of the people do something different.

90% of the people do idiotic things when it comes to buying digital media.

They all go for convenience over control. They all find out the moment they lose access to it for some reason.

The only time I buy something from a place where I don't have control over said purchase is when I don't mind losing it (and therefore, it's often quite cheap). An example would be the few (4) games I own on Steam. Two I bought for €5 to play through once, two were given to me through a product purchase, so I don't actually care about those. All the other games, the ones I don't ever want to lose, are bought at GOG.com (and downloaded, and backed up).

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The only time I buy something from a place where I don't have control over said purchase is when I don't mind losing it (and therefore, it's often quite cheap). An example would be the few (4) games I own on Steam. Two I bought for €5 to play through once, two were given to me through a product purchase, so I don't actually care about those. All the other games, the ones I don't ever want to lose, are bought at GOG.com (and downloaded, and backed up).

Steam probably isn't the best example. Valve maintain that Steam includes mechanisms for allowing customers to continue playing games purchased through the service in the event that the service ceases operation. I trust Valve on this. On the whole, Valve treats their customers like valued customers so for me at least they've earned my trust.

Edit:

I think a better example is EA's Origin. EA repeatedly demonstrated how terrible they were. Their corporate greed was deemed worse than Comcast's, worse than Bank of America's -- and banks are the epitome of corporate greed -- by readers of The Consumerist two years in a row. Certainly EA have improved since then, improved dramatically in my opinion, but I still don't trust them. Not yet.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

90% of the people do idiotic things when it comes to buying digital media.

They all go for convenience over control. They all find out the moment they lose access to it for some reason.

We found out recently that some people have lost all of the eBooks they bought at that romance eBook shop that closed this year because they did not download the eBooks they bought. There's a rule that's for ALL digital media. After you buy it, download because you can't say when you'll lose access.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by ratinox

Why did i♥cabbages crack Amazon's DRM? Because it was there. Amazon's protections weren't cracked out of spite or moral outrage or chafing at walled gardens. It was cracked for the challenge of cracking it.

While I don't intend to discredit i♥cabbages' work (or the work done by the people/person who made removing DRM from EPUB's possible), I have to say that both schemes are not cracked. They can be decrypted by capturing the keys from K4PC and ADE.

If the schemes were cracked, then it would mean a DRM'ed book could be deDRM'ed *without* having the key, and *without* having K4PC or ADE installed.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by ratinox

Steam probably isn't the best example. Valve maintain that Steam includes mechanisms for allowing customers to continue playing games purchased through the service in the event that the service ceases operation. I trust Valve on this. On the whole, Valve treats their customers like valued customers so for me at least they've earned my trust.

I will never, ever, place a large library of digital media into someone else's complete control. If Steam decides you did 'something wrong' and they block your account, all of your games are gone.

GOG.com could block my account, but then I'd still have my own copies. I could still buy games with them through friends, for example (set aside that I might not want to, but still).

If I pay for it, I control it. If I can't, I won't buy it, or it has to be something cheap which I don't mind losing.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

While I don't intend to discredit i♥cabbages' work (or the work done by the people/person who made removing DRM from EPUB's possible), I have to say that both schemes are not cracked. They can be decrypted by capturing the keys from K4PC and ADE.

I think you're quibbling. Either a DRM scheme is cracked or it's not. There may be degrees of cracked (key management compromise vs. encryption algorithm compromise) with associated degrees of risk (user stripping DRM from their purchases vs. anyone stripping DRM from any purchase) but cracked is still cracked.

Also, i♥cabbages work with Amazon's DRM was built on darkreverser's work. Giving credit where credit is due.

Also, it was i♥cabbages who first presented a crack for Adobe ADEPT.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by ratinox

I think you're quibbling. Either a DRM scheme is cracked or it's not. There may be degrees of cracked (key management compromise vs. encryption algorithm compromise) with associated degrees of risk (user stripping DRM from their purchases vs. anyone stripping DRM from any purchase) but cracked is still cracked.

Maybe it's quibbling, but fact is that a 'true' crack means the encryption can be removed even when the key is not present.

If I steal a piece of paper with a code on it, so I'll be able to open the safe in your office, I haven't cracked it. I stole the code and opened it. If I can open any safe of that type without knowing the code, then I've truly cracked it.

Also, i♥cabbages work with Amazon's DRM was built on darkreverser's work. Giving credit where credit is due.

Also, it was i♥cabbages who first presented a crack for Adobe ADEPT.

I don't intend to take credit from anyone, but I don't know exactly who did what in the DRM-removal scene. I wasn't around (anymore) in the e-book community when the DRM was compromised. I found out half a year later, and returned to reading e-books partly because of it. (The other reasons were the introduction of the Kindle Touch, and the much improved calibre.)

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

If I steal a piece of paper with a code on it, so I'll be able to open the safe in your office, I haven't cracked it. I stole the code and opened it. If I can open any safe of that type without knowing the code, then I've truly cracked it.

There is no "truly" when it comes to compromising security systems. A security system is compromised or it's not, and if it's not then it's just a matter of motivation and time.

[jhowell]

Amazon is now delivering version 1.19.1 of Kindle for PC from their download page.

This page still says 1.17.1 is the latest version. I assume that they will update the information there soon.

[Pajamaman]

Presumably the previous versions of K4PC still work.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Presumably the previous versions of K4PC still work.

1.17 does, for now. IIRC 1.15 was still working too or was a few days ago.

[jhowell]

I have been doing some experimenting with the new version of Kindle for PC that supports KFX.

Many books published on Amazon still do not support enhanced typesetting and so are delivered to K4PC in KF8 (or MOBI) format.

I have also found that some books that are delivered to a Kindle device in KFX are delivered in KF8 format to K4PC. I have seen this in comics and other assorted books. It is likely that the K4PC implementation is missing some KFX features resulting in fall back to KF8.

This seems good, but there is a problem. Many of those books are delivered in a split format with text in the .azw file and images in a .azw.res file. This appears to be the same as the .azw3/.azw6 split sometimes seen on e-ink devices. As far as I know there isn't any existing software that can combine these into a single working file.

Even if KFX is cracked the books delivered in split KF8 format will still need to be dealt with.