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Old 01-15-2019, 01:53 PM   #1
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Starting a line indented to end of previous line (Poetry)

I have some poetry that in the manuscript has short lines formatted to preserve meter: if one line is only a few syllables, the next line begins indented past the end of the previous one, and such.

Monospace example (I've attached an image that illustrates this if the code here fails):
Code:
Here's a full line to start this dumb poem,
This line it ends
                  and then
                           the next begins
And now the sample's coming to an end.
How would you approach this in epub, or is this a case of educating the author about epub formatting limitations?
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	verse.png
Views:	44
Size:	5.6 KB
ID:	169120  
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:09 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjfan View Post
I have some poetry that in the manuscript has short lines formatted to preserve meter: if one line is only a few syllables, the next line begins indented past the end of the previous one, and such.

Monospace example (I've attached an image that illustrates this if the code here fails):
Code:
Here's a full line to start this dumb poem,
This line it ends
                  and then
                           the next begins
And now the sample's coming to an end.
How would you approach this in epub, or is this a case of educating the author about epub formatting limitations?
Is this solely for ePUB? NO mobi?

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Old 01-15-2019, 03:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Is this solely for ePUB? NO mobi?

Hitch
Yes, epub only.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjfan View Post
Yes, epub only.
Well, personally, I'd explain the realities of eBook formatting limitations to the client--after all, think of the processing power required, for the device to recalculate the entire layout, for every line, each time the reader changes fonts, font sizes, devices and orientation--but I think that Ruben has a post, around here someplace, that tried to do this, and was somewhat remotely successful.

I do want to point out that even if you are successful, that third stair-stepped indent is not going to be very pretty on 99% of devices. Typical eReader at the default font size has 60 characters per line, right? By the time Jane Reader cranks up her font size, that third indented line is going to be wrapping like there's no tomorrow.

Of course, you could just make it in ePUB3 FXL. That would solve it, from the poet's viewpoint, and only inconvenience the reader. :-)

Anyway, look for posts from Ruben. I'm pretty sure that's who it was that was working on it. (I'll rummage around and see if I can find his username...)

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Old 01-16-2019, 12:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Well, personally, I'd explain the realities of eBook formatting limitations to the client--after all, think of the processing power required, for the device to recalculate the entire layout, for every line, each time the reader changes fonts, font sizes, devices and orientation--but I think that Ruben has a post, around here someplace, that tried to do this, and was somewhat remotely successful.

I do want to point out that even if you are successful, that third stair-stepped indent is not going to be very pretty on 99% of devices. Typical eReader at the default font size has 60 characters per line, right? By the time Jane Reader cranks up her font size, that third indented line is going to be wrapping like there's no tomorrow.
Thanks a lot! That info was enough to find RbnJrg's post here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=258519

The saving grace is that the lines I posted are as long as things get (most are shorter), so even at 18pts it usually wouldn't wrap on a larger e-reader. I'll play with that solution and decide whether it's viable or not.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjfan View Post
Thanks a lot! That info was enough to find RbnJrg's post here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=258519

The saving grace is that the lines I posted are as long as things get (most are shorter), so even at 18pts it usually wouldn't wrap on a larger e-reader. I'll play with that solution and decide whether it's viable or not.
Hi sjfan;

I think you're refering to this post:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...80&postcount=8

But you can follow this another aproximation:

Code:
<body>
  <p>Here's a full line to start this dumb poem,</p>

  <p class="inlined">This line it ends</p>

  <p class="inlined1">and then</p>

  <p class="inlined2">the next begins</p>

  <p>And now the sample's coming to an end.</p>
</body>
and

Code:
p {
   text-align: left;
   text-indent: 0;
   line-height: 1.2em;
   margin: 0;
}

.inlined, .inlined1, .inlined2 {
   display: inline;
}

.inlined1 {
   vertical-align: -1.2em;
}

.inlined2 {
   vertical-align: -2.4em;
}
Below you can see how it looks under ADE:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Image1.png
Views:	49
Size:	54.3 KB
ID:	169137

I attach the respective epub.

Regards
Rubén
Attached Files
File Type: epub Inlined Text.epub (2.1 KB, 25 views)
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbnJrg View Post
I think you're refering to this post:
...
But you can follow this another aproximation:
...
Regards
Rubén
Thanks, Rubén, this is fantastic!
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjfan View Post
Thanks, Rubén, this is fantastic!
You are welcome
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:22 PM   #9
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Yes, very nice!
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:39 PM   #10
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You are welcome
Yup, that's our Rubén--rowing upstream, both arms at a time. :-)

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Old 01-16-2019, 08:25 PM   #11
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Yup, that's our Rubén--rowing upstream, both arms at a time. :-)

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Old 01-19-2019, 05:33 PM   #12
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But it won't look as desired if used on a small screen with large enough fonts. You have to take into account what will happen if you get line wrap.
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Old 01-19-2019, 05:34 PM   #13
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party pooper
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Old 01-19-2019, 05:41 PM   #14
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Yep. And proud of it.

But seriously, any reflowable eBooks have to be allowed to have line wrap. This poetry format looks good when it doesn't wrap, but won't work when there is line wrap.

The thing is, ePub is not a fixed layout print version so you can't always replicate the print layout and have to come up with a different layout that works, That layout won't work in all cases. A good case of it failing is reading on an iPhone with a large font size.
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Old 01-19-2019, 08:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Yep. And proud of it.

But seriously, any reflowable eBooks have to be allowed to have line wrap. This poetry format looks good when it doesn't wrap, but won't work when there is line wrap.

The thing is, ePub is not a fixed layout print version so you can't always replicate the print layout and have to come up with a different layout that works, That layout won't work in all cases. A good case of it failing is reading on an iPhone with a large font size.
Wolfie:

The OP said that the lines he posted are the longest. That means that it will take some significant font-sizing increase to create wrap. Yes, if it's read on a smartphone, sure...the 3rd segment will, maybe, wrap. But if he has a pigheaded client (I feel the pain), then this will mostly work on standardized standalone eReaders--Nooks, Kobo, iBooks, etc.

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