The editor fallacy - Page 3

QuantumIguana · 08-29-2012, 05:45 PM

I don't know if I will use an editor for the book I'm writing, I don't know if I can justify the expense. I did put my book on my Kindle, and listened to it with Text to Speech. I found an amazing number of errors by listening to it that I wouldn't have found just by reading it over and over. When I was reading it myself, I tended to see what I thought I had written, rather than what I had actually written. I don't plan on publishing it until I at least get some unbiased beta readers, if I wind up not using an editor.

Antoinekamel · 08-29-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

I'll suggest a truism that it's those who least think they need editing who need it most.

I don't need and editor.
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REALLY!

pidgeon92 · 08-29-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoinekamel

I don't need and editor.

and editor?

HarryT · 08-30-2012, 01:26 AM

Er, I think that was rather the point of the post.

DarkScribe · 08-30-2012, 04:32 AM

There are two things that are essential to any form of success. An editor, and a good cover design. Even with eBooks, it is the cover that first draws our attention. With so many wannabe critics being unable to do little more than hunt for and pounce upon grammatical or spelling errors, a badly presented book is going to be greeted with a series of one star reviews regardless of its content with regard to plot, characterisation and pace. If one cannot afford an editor, at least find a well educated proof reader. An experienced editor will check for many factors other than grammar and layout; a good proof reader will at least take the wind out of many of the one star grammar vigilantes' sails.

HarryT · 08-30-2012, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

There are two things that are essential to any form of success. An editor, and a good cover design. Even with eBooks, it is the cover that first draws our attention.

Perhaps that depends on the bookstore? I buy the majority of my eBooks at Amazon, and rarely look at the cover of a book. Heck, the Kindle doesn't display the cover of a book unless you make a specific effort to look at it.

Billi · 08-30-2012, 06:05 AM

But then you've already bought it. I guess DarkScribe meant that a good cover is essential in the time of decision making.

rhadin · 08-30-2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Perhaps that depends on the bookstore? I buy the majority of my eBooks at Amazon, and rarely look at the cover of a book. Heck, the Kindle doesn't display the cover of a book unless you make a specific effort to look at it.

I think you may be the exception, Harry. I find that the first thing I do is look at the cover. A very amateurish cover makes me wonder what other corners the author has cut. My experience has been that the less professional looking the cover the greater number of grammar and spelling errors to be found. Not always true, but true often enough.

Perhaps the Kindle doesn't display the cover, I don't know, not owning one, but my Nook and my Sonys do display the cover.

I'm curious, Harry. If you never look at the cover images when shopping for an ebook, how do you make the decision to read the blurb or the sample of an ebook?

HarryT · 08-30-2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

I'm curious, Harry. If you never look at the cover images when shopping for an ebook, how do you make the decision to read the blurb or the sample of an ebook?

I tend to buy "authors" rather than "books". If I buy a book that I enjoy (very often via a recommendation in the "Reading Recs" forum here at MR), then I'll generally buy all of that author's books. I'm also still in the (lengthy) process of replacing my rather large paper library with eBooks, so many books are already a known quantity to me. At the moment, for example, I'm buying a few of Anne McCaffrey's eBooks every week, because they've only recently become available as eBooks in the UK. I typically buy 3 or 4 eBooks a week to add to my collection, even though that's way more than I actually read.

Edward M. Grant · 08-30-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, that's precisely the point. Editing is not an "optional" part of writing a book; it's an investment that will hugely more than repay itself if the book is any good.

Yet the Internet is full of trade-published writers complaining that their publisher didn't edit their book before releasing it.

DarkScribe · 08-30-2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward M. Grant

Yet the Internet is full of trade-published writers complaining that their publisher didn't edit their book before releasing it.

Who are these writers? I work in this industry and I have yet to hear of a recognised publisher failing to to edit work. I am sure that if this was a trend it would have come up at the Frankfurt Book Fair by now. Everything else that affects the industry is discussed - particularly eBooks and Indie authors. Maybe it will come up next month - it starts in mid-October - along with some interesting beer festivals. I will watch for it. (When I am not watching the Frauleins.)

Catlady · 08-30-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward M. Grant

Yet the Internet is full of trade-published writers complaining that their publisher didn't edit their book before releasing it.

Oh really? Who are they?

LuvReadin · 08-31-2012, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

And the indy market, probably not even copy-edited, except maybe by friends. And anyone who buys an indy book knows this, and accepts the typos, the clumsily constructed sentences, and forgives the author as long as the story is good.

I don't think that they do accept it, TBH - I think Darkscribe's comment is far closer to the reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

There are two things that are essential to any form of success. An editor, and a good cover design. Even with eBooks, it is the cover that first draws our attention. With so many wannabe critics being unable to do little more than hunt for and pounce upon grammatical or spelling errors, a badly presented book is going to be greeted with a series of one star reviews regardless of its content with regard to plot, characterisation and pace. If one cannot afford an editor, at least find a well educated proof reader. An experienced editor will check for many factors other than grammar and layout; a good proof reader will at least take the wind out of many of the one star grammar vigilantes' sails.

Based on the reviews I've seen posted over the past few years, you're correct. Although I'm not sure that I'd describe these as 'grammar vigilantes', it is true that people seem to be becoming more vigilant about grammar. My personal feeling is that it was something many readers never really 'saw' until it wasn't there. At that point, they realised quite how awful an experience it is to wade through reams of badly spelt, badly punctuated and badly structured sentences. No matter how good the story, I think it's very difficult for a reader to overcome a feeling of being short-changed if they've been made to work hard get anything out of a product on which they have spent time and (possibly) money.

DiapDealer · 08-31-2012, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

I think you may be the exception, Harry. I find that the first thing I do is look at the cover.

I'm another one of those exceptions. I simply don't care about cover images. I didn't care about them with physical books either. Reviews (or recommendations), product descriptions and prior read authors are the only factors for me when purchasing. Cover art can be quite beautiful sometimes, but it's also usually unrelated—and oftentimes downright misleading—noise. I tend to filter noise wherever possible.

petrucci · 08-31-2012, 08:00 AM

I believe that editors and proof readers are of great value. However, this is an age of businesses being run on thin margins, and one in which most people couldn't care less about grammar. I suspect that authors will turn to crowd sourcing. Donald Knuth began paying readers for finding errors in his works decades ago. (To the best of my knowledge he also used an editor.)

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08-29-2012, 05:45 PM	#31
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	I don't know if I will use an editor for the book I'm writing, I don't know if I can justify the expense. I did put my book on my Kindle, and listened to it with Text to Speech. I found an amazing number of errors by listening to it that I wouldn't have found just by reading it over and over. When I was reading it myself, I tended to see what I thought I had written, rather than what I had actually written. I don't plan on publishing it until I at least get some unbiased beta readers, if I wind up not using an editor.

08-30-2012, 01:26 AM	#34
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Er, I think that was rather the point of the post.

08-30-2012, 04:32 AM	#35
DarkScribe Apprentice Curmudgeon. Posts: 427 Karma: 3286968 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Runaway Bay, QLD, , Australia Device: Kindle DX Graphite, Touch, Paperwhite, Sony, and Nook.	There are two things that are essential to any form of success. An editor, and a good cover design. Even with eBooks, it is the cover that first draws our attention. With so many wannabe critics being unable to do little more than hunt for and pounce upon grammatical or spelling errors, a badly presented book is going to be greeted with a series of one star reviews regardless of its content with regard to plot, characterisation and pace. If one cannot afford an editor, at least find a well educated proof reader. An experienced editor will check for many factors other than grammar and layout; a good proof reader will at least take the wind out of many of the one star grammar vigilantes' sails.

08-30-2012, 06:05 AM	#37
Billi Wizard Posts: 3,388 Karma: 14190103 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Berlin Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx	But then you've already bought it. I guess DarkScribe meant that a good cover is essential in the time of decision making.

08-31-2012, 08:00 AM	#45
petrucci Groupie Posts: 198 Karma: 1647827 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I believe that editors and proof readers are of great value. However, this is an age of businesses being run on thin margins, and one in which most people couldn't care less about grammar. I suspect that authors will turn to crowd sourcing. Donald Knuth began paying readers for finding errors in his works decades ago. (To the best of my knowledge he also used an editor.)