KFX Format

[jackie_w]

Whether or not 'empty' nonbreaking space paragraphs are the 'right' or 'wrong' way to add scenebreaks, surely the important point is that there must be hundreds of thousands of existing books already on sale at Amazon which have already chosen this 'wrong' method. Based on my own extensive observations of hand-editing ebooks I'd say at least 50% of the retail books I see have used the 'empty paragraph' method.

Interestingly, both the Sigil and calibre editors have had past releases where nonbreaking spaces were wrongly converted to normal spaces. Both development teams made it a priority to fix the problem (IIRC Sigil had a few regressions along the way). If developers of free software are conscientious enough to fix the problem surely a professional outfit as big as Amazon should be expected to do so. Asking every book creator to re-process their old books would be ridiculous (IMHO).

As a customer I'd be pretty annoyed if all my scenebreaks were silently stripped.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Whether or not 'empty' nonbreaking space paragraphs are the 'right' or 'wrong' way to add scenebreaks, surely the important point is that there must be hundreds of thousands of existing books already on sale at Amazon which have already chosen this 'wrong' method. Based on my own extensive observations of hand-editing ebooks I'd say at least 50% of the retail books I see have used the 'empty paragraph' method.

Interestingly, both the Sigil and calibre editors have had past releases where nonbreaking spaces were wrongly converted to normal spaces. Both development teams made it a priority to fix the problem (IIRC Sigil had a few regressions along the way). If developers of free software are conscientious enough to fix the problem surely a professional outfit as big as Amazon should be expected to do so. Asking every book creator to re-process their old books would be ridiculous (IMHO).

As a customer I'd be pretty annoyed if all my scenebreaks were silently stripped.

This is why it's most likely best to use a marker for a scene break instead of blank space.

I do fix when blank lines are created with non-breaking spaces. I find that just bad form even if it's valid code.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This is why it's most likely best to use a marker for a scene break instead of blank space.

You're missing the point. I agree empty paragraphs are not good. I would never use them when creating my own HTML/css for personal use.

My point is that a large percentage of retail book producers have used them and have done so for years. It seems particularly prevalent in those books whose source was obviously MSWord.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

You're missing the point. I agree empty paragraphs are not good. I would never use them when creating my own HTML/css for personal use.

My point is that a large percentage of retail book producers have used them and have done so for years. It seems particularly prevalent in those books whose source was obviously MSWord.

If you look under the hood of a lot of those MSWord sourced eBooks, you may very well see some rather poor code. But even still, I agree that valid code that used to work should still work.

[AaronShep]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

YMy point is that a large percentage of retail book producers have used them and have done so for years.

The worst part is they will receive no notice of the change and are likely not to notice. And that's not the only formatting that's been modified so far or that will be modified in the future.

For instance, how many people in this forum have noticed that transparency in graphics has disappeared in KFX? Though JPEG XR supports transparency, Amazon isn't taking advantage of that. GIFs with transparency are being translated to JPEG XR without. But you won't see that unless you happen to be reading a new version of your book in Sepia or Night modes.

Aaron

[jhowell]

I made some small changes to the KFX metadata program.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by AaronShep

I certainly agree that it's the wrong way to add vertical space. Like I said, the proper way in CSS is with margin-bottom or margin-top. In Word, you would use Space After or Before, and that would translate to the proper CSS in exported HTML.

But that's not the primary use of the nonbreaking space. That space is meant to hold together phrases that should not be split into two lines. Every Kindle has supported this from the beginning. And now it's gone. So, you now can have line breaks in the middle of "OS X," or "7 inches." And that's just going to look dumb. It's bad enough that we haven't been able to use the nonbreaking hyphen on Kindle. This just makes it worse.

Aaron

I don't understand why having a line break in the middle of "7 inches" would look "dumb". I never even knew that it wasn't supposed to happen.

I just did a search of all of the books on my Kindle, and I can't find any examples of "any number inches" being separated by a non-breaking space. Granted, I didn't look at the code behind the books, just did a search on the word "inches" on my Kindle, and anywhere that word was associated with a number, I would then check to see if it was possible to have the number and the word "inches" on separate lines. It was. In every case. This was looking at books in .mobi format, .azw format, .azw3 format, and .kfx format. So either the non-breaking space between those two words isn't a thing that other publishers worry about, or none of those formats actually honor non-breaking spaces.

Shari

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by shalym

I don't understand why having a line break in the middle of "7 inches" would look "dumb". I never even knew that it wasn't supposed to happen.

Actually, it should be "seven inches" or, if in a more technical context, "7 in". In the latter case it is a good typesetting practice to avoid a line breaking between the number and the unit, and probably any style guideline says that the space between number and unit should be "hard". Ebooks, of course, are a different matter, you can never trust them anyway

[mattmc]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The iOS app supports AZK (instead of KF8/AZW3) and MOBI, but it also supports KFX as of version 4.9, released May 21, 2015. When a book is downloaded in KFX format the enhanced typesetting features can be clearly seen, such as hyphenation at smaller font sizes and ragged right margin at larger font sizes.

Just checking--you mean version 4.0.9? Because the current version is 4.1, released July 2015.

I downloaded On Basilisk Station and I see hyphenation occurring, so I assume that's the "enhanced typesetting" engine. Bookerly looks nice, IMO.

(Any way to turn off the hyphenation, if you don't want it?)

EDIT: Also, I really appreciate the work you're doing on analyzing the KFX format. It's inspiring; I may end up trying my hand there as well. I downloaded your python script, but I admit I'm not really familiar with the language. Anything I write is more likely to be in Go.

[AaronShep]

Originally Posted by mattmc

(Any way to turn off the hyphenation, if you don't want it?)

Use Webkit's CSS to control the hyphenation.

-webkit-hyphens: manual;

Don't say "none," or you won't get a break at hard hyphens either.

To turn hyphenation back on:

-webkit-hyphens: auto;

I use the first one for the body, then the second for individual styles.

Aaron

[mattmc]

Originally Posted by AaronShep

Use Webkit's CSS to control the hyphenation.

-webkit-hyphens: manual;

Don't say "none," or you won't get a break at hard hyphens either.

To turn hyphenation back on:

-webkit-hyphens: auto;

I use the first one for the body, then the second for individual styles.

Aaron

That's amusing, I was wondering how you could respond to my question so promptly and so authoritatively, and then realized I was just reading your blog entries about KFX. Hi, Aaron.

So, Amazon is using Webkit? Missed the memo on that one.

Or, are you giving this solution because I was talking about K4iOS in my post? (And K4iOS is going to be using a UIWebView, of course.)

I am looking for a way to stop any KFX-related automatic hyphenation across the whole Kindle family, so if that webkit style works, then great.

In practical terms, this means there is no longer any effective way to proof your book before or after publication. You can get it looking absolutely perfect in a KDP proof, and even right after it goes on sale, only to have it skewered a few weeks later. You are asked to blindly entrust the formatting of your books to a team that has shown near-zero sensitivity and competence in typographic matters.

Quoting your blog, this is what I find most disturbing about the whole KFX thing. I have some books with very specific formatting requirements, and the inability to proof them reliably is a serious concern for me.

You mention spacing issues between paragraphs (obviously talked about more in this thread) and the apparent conversion of images to opaque JPEGs, but have you noticed anything else off about KFX?

It's this concern that may lead me into getting my hands dirty with the KFX format. Something I'd really rather not do, but I have to be able to proof my books.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AaronShep

Use Webkit's CSS to control the hyphenation.

-webkit-hyphens: manual;

Don't say "none," or you won't get a break at hard hyphens either.

To turn hyphenation back on:

-webkit-hyphens: auto;

I use the first one for the body, then the second for individual styles.

Aaron

That will not work at all. Not one bit. Nope, nada. Not a hope in heck.

Why won't it work? because you cannot modify a KFX file to change the CSS.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by mattmc

Just checking--you mean version 4.0.9? Because the current version is 4.1, released July 2015.

I downloaded On Basilisk Station and I see hyphenation occurring, so I assume that's the "enhanced typesetting" engine. Bookerly looks nice, IMO.

(Any way to turn off the hyphenation, if you don't want it?)

EDIT: Also, I really appreciate the work you're doing on analyzing the KFX format. It's inspiring; I may end up trying my hand there as well. I downloaded your python script, but I admit I'm not really familiar with the language. Anything I write is more likely to be in Go.

No, I do mean 4.9. The current version is 4.10, not 4.1. (Version numbers often use a period as a separator, not a decimal point.)

The user has no control over hyphenation for KFX books (as JSWolf has already pointed out), with the exception that at huge font sizes hyphenation is disabled. You can disable all of the enhanced typesetting features, including hyphenation, by downloading the book from Amazon's website in AZW3/KF8 format and side-loading that copy onto your device.

It would be nice if more information about KFX came to light, but as long as Amazon continues to support downloading from their website in AZW3/KF8 format it is not urgent. I don't find the enhanced typesetting to be enough of an improvement that I miss it for non-Amazon purchased books.


ETA: I see upon further reading that you are looking at hyphenation control from the point of view of an author/publisher rather than a reader.

[odamizu]

I've never been able to turn off hyphenation on Kindle for iOS app.

I use CSS hyphen controls (-webkit-hyphens) in my epub, convert to dual-mobi, then Send-to-Kindle to get it on my Voyage and iOS devices.

My Voyage receives AZW3/KF8, and hyphens are successfully eliminated. But my iOS devices still show hyphenation. Is this because iOS receives mobi, and mobi doesn't have hyphen control? Or do I need to do something else to turn off hyphenation for mobi and K4iOS?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by odamizu

I've never been able to turn off hyphenation on Kindle for iOS app.

I use CSS hyphen controls (-webkit-hyphens) in my epub, convert to dual-mobi, then Send-to-Kindle to get it on my Voyage and iOS devices.

My Voyage receives AZW3/KF8, and hyphens are successfully eliminated. But my iOS devices still show hyphenation. Is this because iOS receives mobi, and mobi doesn't have hyphen control? Or do I need to do something else to turn off hyphenation for mobi and K4iOS?

An interesting question. I just did a test using a personal document I have in my account, created by emailing a combined MOBI/KF8 file from kindlegen.

Sending it to my PW2 results in an AZW3 file. But doing the same to my iPad with the Kindle app results in a MOBI file.

So it seems that Amazon doesn't deliver an AZK file for personal documents as it does for purchased books.