Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations > Book Clubs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-16-2021, 02:00 PM   #1
hildea
Guru
hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
hildea's Avatar
 
Posts: 865
Karma: 45076616
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Norway
Device: Onyx Boox Poke 3 (had PocketBook Touch Lux and BeBook Neo earlier)
Flashman by George MacDonald Fraser (Discussion)

Here's the voting thread.

Quote:
Fraser revives Flashman, a caddish bully from Tom Brown's Schooldays by Thomas Hughes, and relates Flashman’s adventures after he is expelled in drunken disgrace from Rugby school in the late 1830s. Flashy enlists in the Eleventh Light Dragoons and is promptly sent to India and Afghanistan, where despite his consistently cowardly behavior he always manages to come out on top. Flashman is an incorrigible anti-hero for the ages. This humorous adventure book will appeal to fans of historical fiction, military fiction, and British history as well as to fans of Clive Cussler, James Bond, and The Three Musketeers.
I'm starting the discussion thread from the beginning, so people can comment as they read, if they want. I suggest we allow open spoilers, and do not require spoilers to be hidden in spoiler boxes like this:
Spoiler:
this is a spoiler

People who want to read unspoiled should stay away from this thread until they have finished the book.
If others prefer hidden spoilers, say so, and we can change that.
hildea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2021, 04:21 PM   #2
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,862
Karma: 33803360
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
But presumably totally unappealing to people that hate stories around cads, bullys and anti-heroes. I read the blurbs years ago and I can't see how it's like Clive Cussler, James Bond, and The Three Musketeers. I've read some Cussler & Fleming: The only commonality is Bond and Pitt are womanisers. The Three Musketeers is a different thing again. Anyone else struck by how infrequently they use a musket?
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 08-16-2021, 05:30 PM   #3
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,648
Karma: 44578647
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
But presumably totally unappealing to people that hate stories around cads, bullys and anti-heroes. I read the blurbs years ago and I can't see how it's like Clive Cussler, James Bond, and The Three Musketeers. I've read some Cussler & Fleming: The only commonality is Bond and Pitt are womanisers. The Three Musketeers is a different thing again. Anyone else struck by how infrequently they use a musket?
Next time, try voting instead of whinging after the fact.
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2021, 06:45 PM   #4
issybird
o saeclum infacetum
issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
issybird's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,130
Karma: 196053529
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, GloHD, Aura One
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
But presumably totally unappealing to people that hate stories around cads, bullys and anti-heroes. I read the blurbs years ago and I can't see how it's like Clive Cussler, James Bond, and The Three Musketeers. I've read some Cussler & Fleming: The only commonality is Bond and Pitt are womanisers. The Three Musketeers is a different thing again. Anyone else struck by how infrequently they use a musket?
I agree that the only commonality with Bond is the womanizing; however, I think the Musketeers were self-involved cads, also. People who think otherwise haven’t read the book. (I don’t know anything about Custer.) But I hate blurbs along the lines of, “For fans of X, Y and Z” as the associations are generally superficial and facile. I wish the wonderful Flashman books hadn’t been degraded in that manner; they can stand on their own merit.

This is one of my all-time favorite series; so much so that I only rarely allow myself the privilege and great enjoyment of reading the next one.
issybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2021, 01:42 AM   #5
gmw
cacoethes scribendi
gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
gmw's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,346
Karma: 129796438
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
Anyone that's read the first Dirk Pitt book from Clive Cussler (The Mediterranean Caper, aka Mayday!) knows that Pitt, too, started out as a self-involved cad. He improves considerably after that ... which, if you've read later books, you may wonder about, but the first book really is quite appalling.
gmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 08-18-2021, 02:03 PM   #6
hildea
Guru
hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
hildea's Avatar
 
Posts: 865
Karma: 45076616
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Norway
Device: Onyx Boox Poke 3 (had PocketBook Touch Lux and BeBook Neo earlier)
I've just started it, and like it a lot better than I expected so far. The introduction about how the first edition of the book was received had me laughing out loud more than once. I have no idea whether that intro is true or not -- MacDonald talks about reviewers who took his first introduction at face value and thought the book was a real memoir, but I wouldn't put it past him to write a joking intro to the new edition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by How Did I Get the Idea of Flashman?, 2013
...one left-wing journal which hailed it as a scathing attack on British imperialism
I suspect I'm going to read it at least partly in this light, whether the author intended it or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by How Did I Get the Idea of Flashman?, 2013
...complain that he’s a racist (of course he is; why should he be different from the rest of humanity?)
Hm. In a way I agree -- it's extremely difficult to grow up in a racist society without internalising some of those views. On the other hand, if everyone's racist, it becomes a meaningless criticism. It is meaningful to say that someone's especially racist, and I expect Harry Flashman will reveal himself to be in that category.

Starting the book, this passage struck me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter 2
He was a nabob’s grandson, you see, old Jack Flashman having made a fortune in America out of slaves and rum, and piracy, too, I shouldn’t wonder
I've read a lot of historical novels, and if important characters are wealthy the novels often ignore thorny questions about the source of that wealth. Here, the author is willing to say the unpleasant part out loud, and the protagonist sees (realistically) no problem with it.

There's absolutely no doubt that Harry Flashman is a terrible person, and I'd dislike and condemn him if he was real, but I think I'm going to enjoy reading about him. He's an interesting contrast to the protagonist of East Lynne, who's no doubt a far better person, but when we first meet her in the the book she's so bland and devoid of personality that I haven't mustered the interest to read beyond the second chapter.
hildea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2021, 02:11 PM   #7
hildea
Guru
hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
hildea's Avatar
 
Posts: 865
Karma: 45076616
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Norway
Device: Onyx Boox Poke 3 (had PocketBook Touch Lux and BeBook Neo earlier)
Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post
I think the Musketeers were self-involved cads, also.
Absolutely!

Quote:
This is one of my all-time favorite series; so much so that I only rarely allow myself the privilege and great enjoyment of reading the next one.
I can understand why I wonder if KJ Charles took some inspiration from Flashman when she wrote "The Henchmen of Zenda". Both her Detchard and her Hentzau remind me a bit of Flashman.
hildea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2021, 05:26 AM   #8
drofgnal
Guru
drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.drofgnal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 984
Karma: 6982126
Join Date: Dec 2009
Device: Ipad Pro/Kindle Oasis 3/Iphone XR
I'm struggling with this book. Flashman is worse than a cad. When he almost raped his dad's misttress I nearly pulled the rip cord. Mostly I like books, tv shows, movies etc. where the main character is likable or someone you are pulling for. Flashman is not that. In an hour or so, I'll be on my back porch for my morning reading session, I'm not sure I'll open Flashman. I also feel really ripped off having paid 12.99 for this at Amazon. Never again, if I finish this book, I won't buy any subsequent books in the series.

I'm glad I got my recent fill of classics with David Copperfield and The Time Machine.

Last edited by drofgnal; 08-21-2021 at 05:45 AM.
drofgnal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2021, 12:22 PM   #9
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,648
Karma: 44578647
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
I enjoyed the Afganistan part. The rest: meh. I won't be continuing the series.
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2021, 02:15 PM   #10
issybird
o saeclum infacetum
issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
issybird's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,130
Karma: 196053529
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, GloHD, Aura One
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildea View Post
Absolutely!


I can understand why I wonder if KJ Charles took some inspiration from Flashman when she wrote "The Henchmen of Zenda". Both her Detchard and her Hentzau remind me a bit of Flashman.
There’s a great pleasure in store for you; [not a spoiler] the second Flashman book, Royal Flash, also is a riff on The Prisoner of Zenda. So I can easily see multiple influences for Charles; but her own take was original, inspired and totally in canon, too.

Still grateful to you for recommending it!
issybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 05:53 AM   #11
hildea
Guru
hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hildea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
hildea's Avatar
 
Posts: 865
Karma: 45076616
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Norway
Device: Onyx Boox Poke 3 (had PocketBook Touch Lux and BeBook Neo earlier)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drofgnal View Post
When he almost raped his dad's misttress I nearly pulled the rip cord.
I agree.

When we got to Scotland, this passage had me laughing out loud:
Quote:
When we had finished, she lay in the grass, drowsy, like a contented kitten, and after a few pleased sighs she said:

‘Was that what the minister means when he talks of fornication?’

Astonished, I said, yes, it was.

‘Um-hm,’ said she. ‘Why has he such a down on it?’
Then he was posted to India, and, um. That was pretty ugly. Using the n-word as if it was punctuation, describing and treating Indian people as slaves. Fraser's comment in the foreword is even more disingenious than I expected, implying that Flashman is no more racist than humanity in general:
Quote:
Originally Posted by How Did I Get the Idea of Flashman?, 2013
...complain that he’s a racist (of course he is; why should he be different from the rest of humanity?)
Then there's this passage (meeting a superior officer in Afghanistan):
Quote:
This was too good a chance to miss, so I said: ‘I was expelled from Rugby, too, sir.’

‘Good God! You don’t say! What for, sir?’

‘Drunkenness, sir.’

‘No! Well, damme! Who’d have believed they would kick you out for that? They’ll be expellin’ for rape next.
The sentiment is horribly plausible.

I'm thinking again of that "left-wing journal which hailed it as a scathing attack on British imperialism". It's hard to believe that this wasn't the intention. Flashman is such a terrible person, as are most of the English people we meet.

I'm taking a break from it, not sure if I'll continue. It's well written, and the story is interesting. I want to see what happens next. I find it hard when the protagonist is so extremely unsympathetic, but it helps (somewhat) that he makes no attempt to justify himself to the reader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post
There’s a great pleasure in store for you; [not a spoiler] the second Flashman book, Royal Flash, also is a riff on The Prisoner of Zenda.
That sounds interesting! I might keep reading for that.
hildea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2021, 01:25 PM   #12
BenG
Home Guard
BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BenG's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,719
Karma: 86708144
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard
Device: Kindle Oasis 3G, iPhone 6
Royal Flash was made into a 1975 Richard Lester movie with Malcolm McDowell and Oliver Reed. Fraser adapted his book for the screen, as he did for Lester's Musketeer movies.
BenG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flashman - George MacDonald Fraser Paegan2246 Reading Recommendations 10 04-05-2016 10:32 AM
Fantasy MacDonald, George: Lilith. v1. 27 Sept 14 WT Sharpe Kindle Books 0 09-27-2014 12:21 AM
Fantasy MacDonald, George: Lilith. v1. 27 Sept 14 WT Sharpe ePub Books 0 09-27-2014 12:14 AM
MobileRead Discussion: The Egg and I by Betty MacDonald (spoliers) pilotbob Book Clubs 50 05-02-2010 10:26 PM
Fantasy MacDonald, George: Lilith. v1. 20 May 07 Dr. Drib BBeB/LRF Books 6 05-02-2008 11:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:25 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.