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Old 03-21-2018, 10:27 PM   #1
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Date of death for J. M. Shirazi and others

I'd like to do an ebook for the MR library of Creatures that Once were Men, and Other Stories by Maxim Gorky, published as far as I can tell so far in 1918. It was translated by 'J. M. Shirazi and others.' I'm still searching for J. M. Shirazi's date of death, but what what can I do about the 'others'?

If I can find J. M. Shirazi's date of death would the ebook be acceptable for the MR Library?

The source text will be from the University of Adelaide ebook library, and they state that all their texts are in the Public Domain. The copyright rule in Australia is death plus 70.

Does anyone know J. M. Shirazi's date of death?

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Old 03-23-2018, 07:52 PM   #2
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The very helpful people at Launceston LINC (public library) have given me a link to a British English version of Creatures that once were Men and Other Stories published in 1905, with J.K.M. Shirazi as the translator. But they were unable to find any other information at all about him or her.

Could I have ruling from a moderator please whether an book published 113 years ago would be accepted as being in the Public Domain, and an ebook of it would be accepted into the MobileRead library?

As a bonus could someone remind me please how a post can be sent directly to a moderator? I know that there is an icon somewhere to do that, but I can't remember which one.

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Old 03-23-2018, 08:21 PM   #3
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If you click on the "!" button to the right of the "karma" button, you can send a message there. It offers to let you "report as spam", but it also lets you just type a message.
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Old 03-24-2018, 03:10 PM   #4
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Could I have ruling from a moderator please whether an book published 113 years ago would be accepted as being in the Public Domain, and an ebook of it would be accepted into the MobileRead library.
When an author/translator/illustrator is unknown (as in "others"), we count 70 years from publication... and that should be from the earliest publication that can be found.

When no biographical information can be found (as in "J. M. Shirazi"), well, we can only consider it as a pseudonym until proved otherwise... and that works exactly as for unknown creators, 70 years from publication. (Now someone could say in this case we should look for the earliest publication of the latest work by that name, but then there is no guarantee it's the same person.)

This, at least, is my understanding of the general copyright laws in Europe, and the rules of thumb I use when approving uploads. To be safe, works with unknown/no-date creators are marked as "unsure" if published between 70 and 100 ago, but they are still approved and allowed in the library. So yes, you can upload it without worries.
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Old 03-24-2018, 03:52 PM   #5
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A Mohamed Jaffer Shirazi appears in the 1911 census (The only Shirazi to appear there.)

A Matilda Shirazi appears in the 1939 register, and may have got married in 1950.

But I could find no info about J M Shirazi or J K M Shirazi in the usual author/translator lists.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
When an author/translator/illustrator is unknown (as in "others"), we count 70 years from publication... and that should be from the earliest publication that can be found.

When no biographical information can be found (as in "J. M. Shirazi"), well, we can only consider it as a pseudonym until proved otherwise... and that works exactly as for unknown creators, 70 years from publication. (Now someone could say in this case we should look for the earliest publication of the latest work by that name, but then there is no guarantee it's the same person.)

This, at least, is my understanding of the general copyright laws in Europe, and the rules of thumb I use when approving uploads. To be safe, works with unknown/no-date creators are marked as "unsure" if published between 70 and 100 ago, but they are still approved and allowed in the library. So yes, you can upload it without worries.
In my personal research into what becomes public domain next year in the U.S., I've found a few novels by people that I cannot find much biographical info on. So that should be interesting to see if anybody uploads those books in 2019.

Duncan Campbell - The Last Millionaire: A Tale of the Old World and the New (1923)
http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/campbell_duncan

Fred M. Clough - The Golden Age; or, The Depth of Time (1923)
http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/clough_fred_m
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:50 AM   #7
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Thanks, that's most helpful.
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
When an author/translator/illustrator is unknown (as in "others"), we count 70 years from publication... and that should be from the earliest publication that can be found.

When no biographical information can be found (as in "J. M. Shirazi"), well, we can only consider it as a pseudonym until proved otherwise... and that works exactly as for unknown creators, 70 years from publication. (Now someone could say in this case we should look for the earliest publication of the latest work by that name, but then there is no guarantee it's the same person.)

This, at least, is my understanding of the general copyright laws in Europe, and the rules of thumb I use when approving uploads. To be safe, works with unknown/no-date creators are marked as "unsure" if published between 70 and 100 ago, but they are still approved and allowed in the library. So yes, you can upload it without worries.
Thanks, that's most helpful.
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
A Mohamed Jaffer Shirazi appears in the 1911 census (The only Shirazi to appear there.)

A Matilda Shirazi appears in the 1939 register, and may have got married in 1950.

But I could find no info about J M Shirazi or J K M Shirazi in the usual author/translator lists.
Thanks. Does 'the 1911 census' refer to the US census or the UK census? Mr or Ms Shirazi's work was published in both countries, by different publishers.

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Old 03-25-2018, 03:40 AM   #10
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Thanks. Does 'the 1911 census' refer to the US census or the UK census? Mr or Ms Shirazi's work was published in both countries, by different publishers.
UK census. The USA census happens on years ending in zero.
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:57 AM   #11
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In my personal research into what becomes public domain next year in the U.S., I've found a few novels by people that I cannot find much biographical info on. So that should be interesting to see if anybody uploads those books in 2019.
MR follows European copyright terms, not US. So those works, published before 1948 and with no biographical info on their authors, are already acceptable.
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:50 PM   #12
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UK census. The USA census happens on years ending in zero.
Thanks. To add another possible complication: I'm starting to think that the translator may have been a Russian who learned English, rather than an English person who learned Russian.

It doesn't really matter, since the book is in the public domain anyway.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:01 PM   #13
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... and we already had it in the library, which is another "proof" that it is not copyrighted (at least we either approved it or overlooked it). Patricia said "no translator named", but our notes mention the same J. K. M. Shirazi.
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Old 03-31-2018, 03:58 AM   #14
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... and we already had it in the library, which is another "proof" that it is not copyrighted (at least we either approved it or overlooked it). Patricia said "no translator named", but our notes mention the same J. K. M. Shirazi.
I'm nearly finished preparing an ebook version of his or her 'Life of Omar Khayammi', and the Preface mentions that he or she was Persian. There are footnotes referring to Oxford professors, and a dedication to what seems to be an English woman, but no other information.
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:16 AM   #15
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A Mohamed Jaffer Shirazi appears in the 1911 census (The only Shirazi to appear there.)
FWIW That M J Shirazi was a visitor at the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square - he was a General Merchant in the Tea & Silk Trade and was born in Shiraz, Persia. Annoyingly it doesn't give his age but a redacted entry shows he had been married 10years and had one child.

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