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Old 11-22-2011, 08:02 PM   #181
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I own both the K3 (that I just picked up today for 89 bucks) and the KT. I have looked extensively at both screens, and I find the K3 more pleasing to the eye, the background is just a shade brighter/warmer. Again, it is such a tiny difference that it is splitting hairs - both are nice screens. If I had to pick one though, I would go with the K3 as the slightly better screen.

Here's a picture I took just now.. which doesn't really show much difference, but YMMV:

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:02 PM   #182
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I received a replacement K3 yesterday and was able to compare it with my older K3. I placed them side by side near a window. I thought the indirect light was falling on them both very evenly and the new one which was slightly further from the window looked a little bit better and the background a little bit less gray. Then I switched them and was surprised to see that now the old one looked better in a similar manner. I was shocked at how much a difference I could notice in basically the same lighting conditions depending upon slight variations in placement. These screens are harder to accurately compare than I expected.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:13 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by blue_skies View Post
I received a replacement K3 yesterday and was able to compare it with my older K3. I placed them side by side near a window. I thought the indirect light was falling on them both very evenly and the new one which was slightly further from the window looked a little bit better and the background a little bit less gray. Then I switched them and was surprised to see that now the old one looked better in a similar manner. I was shocked at how much a difference I could notice in basically the same lighting conditions depending upon slight variations in placement. These screens are harder to accurately compare than I expected.
I know what you mean. Always look at them from both sides, different lighting and angles. My K3 looks good no matter where I put it or take it. My K4 varies. Bright lights make the background better but the text looks worse. Darker settings the text looks okay but the background is light grey. I haven't found a medium yet. No matter where I compare the two, the K3 always looks better. I think the K3 is a great deal if you can get one of them on sale this week. The K4 is a nice reader for the price and size.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:25 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasC View Post
Here's the note I've sent to Amazon Customer Services;

Dear sir,

This is the 2nd replacement K4NT that I have received. In my opinion the screen quality of this unit is not nearly as good as my +12 month old K3 wifi/3g or DXG readers. Both of these older units have a much lighter (off-white) background and much better contrast.

Also, I have compared this with the new Sony 6 in reader screen quality and it is identical to my older K3 and DXG readers.

The newer K4NT has a much greyer background screen and because of this the contrast is not as good, esp. in low light conditions. Under strong lighting it is fine. However, under normal low-med indoor lighting conditions I find I need to go to a larger font size in order to read it comfortably.

In my opinion the current E-ink Kindles screens are not as good a quality as the +12 month old Kindles (or the new Sony reader). I strongly suggest that Amazon technical services review this issue asap.

While I do not intend returning my current replacement K4NT I'm certainly not 100% happy with it. I'll probably order a lighted cover for it when they are available to see if this helps. I have experimented by placing it over my K3 screen and using it's lighted cover improves the K4NT contrast quite a bit.


I'm probably only going to get the usual polite 'thanks for you input' reply, lol!

Cheers,
Tom
Good idea, I took your message and modified it a bit for my own circumstances to let them know about my experience with the new kindle vs. the older kindle keyboard.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:26 AM   #185
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I received a reply from Amazon:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazon
Hello,

I apologize for the inconvenience you had with the Kindle.

Thank you for writing to Amazon.com with your comments about the Kindle Screen.

However, this is something that we need to take serious consideration for change in how this process works.

To ensure the utmost attention, I've also passed your message on to the appropriate people in our company. We value customer feedback such as yours as it helps us continue to improve the service and selection we provide.

We appreciate the time you have taken to share your feedback with us. It's important for us to hear how customers feel about all aspects of shopping at Amazon.com, so we can continue to improve our store and the service we provide.

The Kindle Team will carefully review your comments and suggestions.

Thanks for your interest in Kindle.
Sounds a bit promising if they're actually considering my comments.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:28 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebra View Post
I received a reply from Amazon:
Sounds a bit promising if they're actually considering my comments.
I seriously doubt they'll do or admit anything. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence anywhere proving any of the K3s has a superior screen to the K4's, only subjective reviews under uncontrolled environment.

From my own experience, I was happy with the K4 screen, then people say K3's is superior, out of curiosity I check it out and measured it using my i1 pro spectrophotometer, which is way more sensitive, accurate and consistant than eyeballing(which is why they're invented anyway, to detect the most subtle difference in color/brightness), they're the same screen. Then some are saying earlier version of the K3 is the superior one, I checked it out again(sept or oct 2010 version, it was pre-ordered) and did the measurement, same screen... The only thing that is measurable and noticeable is that the screens have slightly different color hues(even within the same model) which has nothing to do with K3 vs K4. So I would expect amazon to have similar conclusion. But we'll see how amazon responds I guess
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:34 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinew View Post
I seriously doubt they'll do or admit anything. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence anywhere proving any of the K3s has a superior screen to the K4's, only subjective reviews under uncontrolled environment.

From my own experience, I was happy with the K4 screen, then people say K3's is superior, out of curiosity I check it out and measured it using my i1 pro spectrophotometer, which is way more sensitive, accurate and consistant than eyeballing(which is why they're invented anyway, to detect the most subtle difference in color/brightness), they're the same screen. Then some are saying earlier version of the K3 is the superior one, I checked it out again(sept or oct 2010 version, it was pre-ordered) and did the measurement, same screen... The only thing that is measurable and noticeable is that the screens have slightly different color hues(even within the same model) which has nothing to do with K3 vs K4. So I would expect amazon to have similar conclusion. But we'll see how amazon responds I guess
Well, people use their readers in uncontrolled environments, so perhaps what they perceive is what ultimately matters.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:49 PM   #188
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Well, people use their readers in uncontrolled environments, so perhaps what they perceive is what ultimately matters.
Yes people use it in uncontrolled environment, and one can freely prefer one to another, many factors(including placeable) is proven to be powerful and effective.
But that has nothing to do with saying one is better than the other as fact.

To say A is better than B as fact, they need to be tested under a controlled environment with consistently repeatable & measurable result. Especially when we're talking about minute differences here.

Last edited by shinew; 11-23-2011 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:13 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebra View Post
I received a reply from Amazon:



Sounds a bit promising if they're actually considering my comments.
Sounds to me like someone who has been dealing with the issue enough to know something has changed on the newer Kindles. Let's hope enough people say enough that Amazon switches back or finds some one equivalent or better to manufacturer the screens on the next Kindles.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:16 PM   #190
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Sounds promising Zeebra, thanks. I got an E-mail response asking me to phone them to discuss this issue with them in more detail. I plan to call them later today.

Shinew, to be honest, your controlled test data is interesting but not very useful, in my case at least. It's interesting to look at even the differences you can see (or at least I can see) between the Amazon Kindle ads. Have a look and compare the background colour of these ~1/2 way down, right margin, where they show off the formatting options screenshots;

K3;
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...famstripe_kk3g

K4nt;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051QVESA/..._menu_kdptqso3

I think you'll see that the K4 has a much greyer screen, even under the ideal lighting that I'm sure Amazon would have used.

Last edited by ThomasC; 11-23-2011 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:56 PM   #191
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Shinew, to be honest, your controlled test data is interesting but not very useful, in my case at least. It's interesting to look at even the differences you can see (or at least I can see) between the Amazon Kindle ads. Have a look and compare the background colour of these ~1/2 way down, right margin, where they show off the formatting options screenshots;
I've expressed all I have to say on the subject and shared my experience. so I'm not going to repeat myself again.

For those who firmly believe K3 has a more contrasty screen than the K4, all I can say is enjoy your K3 & good luck trying to resolve whatever you find fault with the K4 screen
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:44 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinew View Post
I've expressed all I have to say on the subject and shared my experience. so I'm not going to repeat myself again.

For those who firmly believe K3 has a more contrasty screen than the K4, all I can say is enjoy your K3 & good luck trying to resolve whatever you find fault with the K4 screen
I found your observations rather interesting. I don't own a K4NT but have observed both the K4NT and KK side by side. After looking at reviews (especially Tom's Hardware) I'm wondering if Amazon havent changed the algorithm used to display text, and possibly a new display controller, thus making the text seem a little lighter on the K4. Everyone wants fast page turns and less battery consumption - for that I guess something has to give.

Tom's hardware had a good close-up of the text and the K3 seemed sharper around the edges. I honestly believe a firmware fix will solve this. Heck moving to every 6 pages as a full refresh (or optionally turning it off) could well and truely had an impact on perceived text contrast.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:56 PM   #193
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Heck moving to every 6 pages as a full refresh (or optionally turning it off) could well and truely had an impact on perceived text contrast.
Yes, using the fulltime refresh option with the latest firmware update helps a little bit omho.

Edit Update;

Talked to CS for ~15 minutes today. Actually had them look at their two ads (K4 and K3 keyboard) and they could see the difference too. Anyway, they are going to get their tech services people to investigate this and agreed it might just take a firmware fix to sort this out. Personally I think that it would be a good idea to allow for some customer controlled contrast control on all e-ink kindles. All I can do for now.

Cheers,
Tom

Cheers,
Tom

Last edited by ThomasC; 11-23-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:27 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by ThomasC View Post
Yes, using the fulltime refresh option with the latest firmware update helps a little bit omho.

Edit Update;

Talked to CS for ~15 minutes today. Actually had them look at their two ads (K4 and K3 keyboard) and they could see the difference too. Anyway, they are going to get their tech services people to investigate this and agreed it might just take a firmware fix to sort this out. Personally I think that it would be a good idea to allow for some customer controlled contrast control on all e-ink kindles. All I can do for now.

Cheers,
Tom

Cheers,
Tom
Wouldn't that be wonderful! If was a simple firmware change in the new Kindles that could be reverted to.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:13 AM   #195
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I haven't posted here very often, but I was at a different Kindle forum where there was a bit of hysteria, and thought I'd come over here. This was the first thread that caught my eye.
I have a DXG, a K3, and a Touch. The screens look virtually identical on all of them.
It's hard for me to believe there's a difference between the models when the people who have actually tested them with instruments have found them to be the same.

I thought I'd count the number of people in this thread who say that they've looked at both units, and count the ones on either side.
14 people say the screens are the same or the K4 is better, and 12 say the K3 is better.
It looks like more people are saying the K3 is better because the same few people on that side are posting over and over.
So, those few people, instead of seeing their situations as isolated cases, have concluded that there's a systemic problem, even though most people say the new screen is the same or better, and tests have shown them to be the same.

This is fascinating to watch.

Last edited by mikeschr; 11-24-2011 at 12:15 AM. Reason: corected "saying K3 is better"
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