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Old 08-01-2020, 02:58 PM   #31
MGlitch
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Originally Posted by Muttly View Post
Yes, I understand that it can happen, and accept that it's perfectly fair to speculate that it might have happened. What I have been objecting to is acting as if it is a fact.
Except no such thing has happened. What has happened is David and I pointing out "x" could have happened which would have an impact on "y" and cause result "z".

Quote:
You made no mention of testing whatsoever until I suggested it would be unethical to sell products that you knew would not work as advertised.
Possibly because it was assumed that they were tested, at least initially, and possibly after. But again what passes Kobo's standard of acceptable battery life (again remembering the claim is 30min/day for 14days depending on a set of conditions etc etc legalese to have wiggle room on this claim) and what a consumer considers good battery life are not one in the same. Something you can find evidence of across devices covered in this forum, and others. No matter how a company advertises their battery life there are folks who complain thinking it's inaccurate or misleading etc.


Quote:
I agree that there will be some small amount of degradation. It was your very strong suggestion that they would either refuse to charge or have lost 50% of their capacity that I objected to.
Emphasis mine, lets have a look at David's claim of that:

Quote:
And, the have probably been sitting around long enough that they might have self discharged low enough to trigger the protection circuit to not let them charge.

I disagree. These have been off the market long enough that the battery life is likely to be half of the initial life. That is noticeable.
"Probably" and "likely" are hardly what I'd call "strong suggestion". Rather it's stating that there's a chance of one, and a probability of the other. Not a certainty of either.

Quote:
For the record I also agree that if they have been stored at a very high temperature they will have lost a lot of capacity. That indeed, could happen. What I object to is your (and mglich's - who seems to be singing from exactly the same hymn sheet as yourself), continually posting as if this was likely (mglich seems to post as if it was a virtual certainty, but he's extremely hard to take seriously) to have happened.
I don't take anything for a certainty in regards to the battery life. You seem to keep having this same issue where any time anyone disagrees with you they are asserting something as stone cold fact. None of us work for Kobo, at least not in any capacity that would give us meaningful insight into the conditions in their warehouses or how the internal workings of those warehouses. What David and I have done, and again you have not yet done either through inability or unwillingness, is present a series of possibilities which would have an impact on battery life. Be it storage, length of time since manufacture, etc. and said that there's a chance (arguably a good chance) that the battery life of one of these KA1s has been noticeably negatively impacted. How much is certainly questionable, though I would certainly think David's initial assertion that expecting "as new" behavior would lead to some disappointment.

Quote:
What do the pair of you imagine? That each of the warehouses in each of the territories where the Kobo is for sale has a very hot spot, and all the missing cases end up there?
Having been in warehouses and the shipping department of various stores, I can imagine that "very hot spot" is probably unlikely. However by that same token I know that companies have a tendency to keep run on the cheap with these places, relying on the greater space and other factors to maintain a comfortable enough working area.

I'd also point out that it's unlikely in the extreme that these KA1s were sitting out in the open since they're only now just being sold. As to the specifics of where they were kept none of us know, but given information we do have we can make educated guesses.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:31 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttly View Post
Yes, I understand that it can happen, and accept that it's perfectly fair to speculate that it might have happened. What I have been objecting to is acting as if it is a fact.
Show me where I have said these were definitely "found" in the warehouse? I admit that I am speculating. I have never tried to say anything else. I'm pretty sure I have used "probably" or similar qualifiers everywhere. Everything I have said is based on my my experience, reading and what other people have told me. But, lets state some facts:
  1. The Aura ONE was released in October 2016.
  2. It was on sale until shortly after the Forma was released in October 2018.
  3. Kobo announced that the Aura ONE was being discontinued. I don't remember exactly when that was done. At that time, the Aura ONE stopped being listed for sale in Kobo's store.
  4. Sometime earlier this year Kobo started selling the Aura ONE again in a few of their national stores. I don't believe there was an announcement from Kobo.
  5. Until recently, no-one has mentioned that the Auro ONE was being sold on Kobo's web site. Or at least, I don't remember seeing them.

Looking at those facts, and thinking about them, what is sensible conclusion? That Kobo decided to make more Aura ONE's but ddin't bother to tell anyone? Or that Kobo decided to start selling some existing stock of the product?

To me, the case for these being old stock is far to strong to think it is anything else. Why they have this stock is another matter. That we can only speculate about unless someone from Kobo who knows decides to pop in. But, to me, "Lost in the warehouse" is the most likely reason.
Quote:
You made no mention of testing whatsoever until I suggested it would be unethical to sell products that you knew would not work as advertised.

Remember that you said (in the same post):

It is a fact that Kobo are selling them, and you had made no mention of testing. Indeed, you did not suggest in either of the two bites of the 'battery's duff' scenarios quoted above, that there was any significant variation in the battery quality.

Hence my suggesting that you had a very low opinion of Kobo.
No, it means that I wasn't thinking about this at all. I was thinking about the characteristics of Li-Ion batteries. It didn't occur to me to mention Kobo testing these devices because it didn't occur to me that they wouldn't test them. It's also important to point out they wouldn't test all of them. They would test samples and decide on what to do based on the results of the tested devices. The only question I have about this is whether what Kobo decided was acceptable agrees with what I, or another buyer would think is acceptable.
Quote:

I agree that there will be some small amount of degradation. It was your very strong suggestion that they would either refuse to charge or have lost 50% of their capacity that I objected to.
I've done a lot of reading about Li-Ion batteries since the first one I had in a laptop died about 15 years ago. Since then, the overall life and capacity have changed, but the basic rules have remained the same.

Li-Ion batteries have low self-discharge. This is about 5% per month at room temperature. The lower the temperature, the slower the self-discharge, the higher the temperature, the faster the self-discharge. From my experience new devices seem to be charged at about 50%. At 5% per month self-discharge, that means about 10 months for the charge to drop to zero. Add another month and the battery has probably dropped to levels that means it will be damaged.

Even at 100% charge when manufactured, that means 20 months to get to zero charge. Which works out to be about December 2018. Months after the Forma was released and after the likely date that Kobo stopped manufacturing the Aura ONE.

I could go into a similar discussion on the loss of capacity of a battery over time. Losing 50% capacity is possibly the worst case, but, the loss will be a significant amount.

That's not all the conditions that could be happening. But, those were my basic thoughts when I heard about them. Do you understand why I have a concern about the batteries in these devices? Maybe I should have said "possible" rather than "probably". My statement was pessimistic, unlike your extremely optimistic view. It was a warning of what could happen
Quote:
For the record I also agree that if they have been stored at a very high temperature they will have lost a lot of capacity. That indeed, could happen. What I object to is your (and mglich's - who seems to be singing from exactly the same hymn sheet as yourself), continually posting as if this was likely (mglich seems to post as if it was a virtual certainty, but he's extremely hard to take seriously) to have happened.

What do the pair of you imagine? That each of the warehouses in each of the territories where the Kobo is for sale has a very hot spot, and all the missing cases end up there?
As stated, I have some experience with warehouses. I have been in several and feel I can make a statement about the conditions I have seen: Completely and utterly variable. Have you seen the pictures Amazon shows of their warehouses? Nice and clean with robots running around? That is not the norm. And I bet is isn't even the norm for Amazon (no proof, just idle speculation). Conditions in warehouses are variable. Some are well air-conditioned, some aren't. Many have sections that are better conditioned for storing things that are sensitive to storage conditions. The storage for devices like this should be in lower temperatures. Not below freezing, but, ideally in the low teens or single digit temperatures (I'm talking Celsius here).

Of course, if my "speculation" is right, and these were lost and then found, it is likely they were store incorrectly. Two common reasons for "lost" items in a warehouse that are later "found" is that they were incorrectly marked off as being removed, or they were put in the wrong place. The former should mean the devices were correctly stored, but, the latter could mean they were not.


And for the record, my first statement on this is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
At a guess, it probably means someone found a box of them somewhere and Kobo are getting rid of them. I'm sure they are not newly manufactured. If anyone gets one, don't expect the battery life to be as "good as new".
You are the one to go from my "At a guess" and "probably" to decide that I was categorically stating something as a fact. And you were the one to criticise my mild but completely valid warning about the battery.
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Old 08-02-2020, 03:50 AM   #33
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Sorry to break up the arguing but I think OP raised a good question and now I would like to ask if anyone knows where the Aura ONE can be purchased, especially in North America? Used or unused or refurbished, it doesn’t matter, but I’m Canadian so preferably a more cost friendly option than something from Europe... thanks
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:28 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Amiieey View Post
Sorry to break up the arguing but I think OP raised a good question and now I would like to ask if anyone knows where the Aura ONE can be purchased, especially in North America? Used or unused or refurbished, it doesn’t matter, but I’m Canadian so preferably a more cost friendly option than something from Europe... thanks
eBay has some though at either dubiously low prices for a “new opened box” or rather high Japanese imports.

I imagine Craig’s list and other such sites or services may turn one up us well. Though I think all the above concerns would apply even more so to a used device. Buyer beware and all that.

I’ll note that the Japanese imports are at a price that unless you abhor the Forma you’d probably be better off getting the Forma.

As of this writing it doesn’t seem you can find a new unopened KA1 in NA without European importing. Though I did not do an exhaustive search, kobo does not list it, nor does Walmart or chapters. Though chapters claims some stores may have the sleepcover case.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiieey View Post
Sorry to break up the arguing but I think OP raised a good question
I wish I had reread the first few posts before, as I now I have no idea what the OP is up to. The first post is a general, "is it available?" question. Someone replied that the Kobo site said they were not available, and someone else posted that they had bought one a few months before. The OP then replied to the "no" answer with what is basically a "You're wrong and don't know what you are talking about" post.

There is 34 minutes between the first post and this post. The OP clearly knew more about the availability of the Aura ONE than than the rest of us, and in fact, appears to have already ordered the device. Why didn't they include this information in the first post? And the real question is in that post: Whether it is a mistake or not.
Quote:
and now I would like to ask if anyone knows where the Aura ONE can be purchased, especially in North America? Used or unused or refurbished, it doesn’t matter, but I’m Canadian so preferably a more cost friendly option than something from Europe... thanks
The answer is that, for whatever reasons, the Aura ONE is available in some markets and not others. If Kobo, or their local retailers do not list it, you will have to source it from one of the markets where it is available. You could contact Kobo directly and ask, but, I would think that if they had any to sell, they would be on sale now.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:19 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttly View Post
I'm glad Kobo have come to their senses and decided to re-issue the 'ONE' (if that is what they have, indeed, done).

I believe davidfor is correct. When Kobo phases out a reader, it’s not uncommon for batches of them, refurbed or otherwise, to appear on the website off and on as they find backstock.

It’s a beautiful ereader. It was one of my favorites. Good on you for snapping one up while you could.



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Old 08-07-2020, 01:09 AM   #37
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I bought my Aura One Limited Edition a little over a year ago. It was direct from Kobo, shipped from Canada. So they have sold a version of the Aura recently.

My Kindle Voyage was getting long in the tooth and starting to get flakey. I love the Aura One and when it comes time to replace it I hope there is a Kobo model of a similar form factor.

BTW, a big part of this thread is an example of the reason I don't spend so much time on online forums these days. Three pages of "I said/no you said..." Of course it was minor compared to the Boeing vs Airbus airliner wars and I run for the hills when somebody says "Qualcomm vs Intel modems"
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Old 08-12-2020, 01:30 AM   #38
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Oh how I rue the day that when I no longer have my Aura One...
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:57 AM   #39
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Oh how I rue the day that when I no longer have my Aura One...
My feelings also.
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Old 08-12-2020, 12:15 PM   #40
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Oh how I rue the day that when I no longer have my Aura One...
I couldn't agree more. I use mine constantly and love the simplicity of design. I have a Forma but don't miss the page turn buttons at all when using the Aura One.
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