Format: How important is knowing the format before purchase

[witchkitten]

The Blackberry method of telling whether or not a book is available as an epub isn't perfect. It seems that the absence of Blackberry support means that the book does not have an Adobe DRM file. Instead, it might be kepub only, DRM-Free epub (at least in one example), and perhaps other files types. Whether these file formats really don't work on Blackberry, I can't say since I don't own a Blackberry, however, it seems that Kobo's new site is marking it this way. Also, this method does not work in countries where Blackberry devices aren't supported on any book.

Although my sample size has been small, I've checked the Blackberry method against the Preview method for all books that didn't have an Adobe DRM epub and in all cases Blackberry wasn't supported. Also, for all books I've checked, if Blackberry was supported then the book was available as an Adobe DRM epub. Unless someone finds an exception, it means that if you see that Blackberry is supported you can be reasonably sure that there is an Adobe DRM option, however, you shouldn't rule out books that don't support Blackberry because they may be DRM-free epubs or some other acceptable file type (use the preview checking method in these cases to be sure). If someone has an example of a book that has Blackberry support but does not include an epub version then I'd like to know because that would make this method of checking completely unreliable. (Note: I'm not sure how Kobo handles PDF only books because I can't find a book that is available only as a PDF.)

Regardless, it's ridiculous that we have to go through multiple steps (the preview checking method) or use a cryptic code (the Blackberry method) to tell what file format a book is available in. It should be clearly printed on the book info webpage to avoid confusion.

[hwlester]

The funny thing about EPUB/BlackBerry support is Overdrive Media Console added EPUB support to its BlackBerry app a little more than 2 years ago. To my knowledge, OMC was the only BlackBerry app that supported EPUB at that time.

I'm not really using my work BlackBerry for much other than email now, so I can't speak to Kobo and its support on BlackBerry.

[Ripplinger]

I'm one that voted it's absolutely important and something you need to know to make a purchase. Which means that Kobo lost me as a customer for purchasing ebooks from them ever. I wonder if they've seen a drop in their ebook sales yet since making this change?

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

I'm one that voted it's absolutely important and something you need to know to make a purchase. Which means that Kobo lost me as a customer for purchasing ebooks from them ever. I wonder if they've seen a drop in their ebook sales yet since making this change?

I sincerely hope so, as sales costing is the most effective way to produce a change in business practice, however I doubt it, as I believe that people who strip DRM and shop in multiple stores are in the distinct minority as readers; at least, the only person I know "in real life" out of the many e-readers I know is familiar with Calibre. The reason being, unfortunately, that he's a pirate. Everybody else tends to buy one device and remain with that device's store, managing their books on their device.

[Nightyume]

Well, I answered based on my personal needs. Theoretically I believe that it should be stated ethically, especially with a seller that normally provides multiple formats.

But as others stated as is we are lucky that they provide multiple formats that are more "open" (open in the sense that Adobe DRM works on different devices and programs that aren't kobo dependent). But as was also stated, the fact that they mention that they believe in open standards and proudly support epubs means they should try to apply it whenever possible (they at no point guarantee it, they only say they support it which is implicit but not explicit).

Now personally I said it was good to know but not necessary. I have bought 69 books from them, two from kindle (one because it wasn't available on any other site/seller and the other because while I was buying that one I saw one with an over 90% discount that seemed potentially interesting), and the two humble bundle ebook packages that have come out. The humble bundle offerings were DRM-free epubs so I just imported them onto the Glo and my phone's kobo app. The kindle ones... well, let's just say I have calibre but not a kindle and don't like their app.

Since I normally have a kobo device (Glo died and waiting on the Aura to become available online again) the only times I care about the format is when I want to read something that is only available on PDF. I have only bought one book that turned out to be a PDF which was SO utterly unreadable on the Glo and that was a complete mistake because I hadn't even considered the possibility (that was hell as converting PDFs to epubs often doesn't work out so well, especially if they have copious amounts of footnotes). And on two occasions I would have liked the book to have been available as a PDF (PDFs are easier to make handwritten notes in on devices like the Galaxy Note 10.1 which is great for studying/textbooks).

But yeah, I think that most people are fine with either kepubs or epubs and don't care since if they're buying on kobo they most likely have a kobo device or use their app.

Don't forget that comics aren't even available for independent downloads, they can only be viewed on their app on tablets/phones, which to be frank makes me wonder if the limited availability of certain formats is sometimes somehow related to publisher restrictions placed on Kobo.

And hey, for me the format options appear on the book info page before purchasing so if I remember to check I can see the info

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Geoff I have a Kobo (native) app on my Playbook, which I used as my primary ereader for over a year (a year or two ago).

I bought ebooks via Kobo irrespective of their DRM status and was able to open and read each of them on the Playbook.

However, I don't know anything about BB phones and Kobo, that is, whether there's ever been a Kobo phone app or not. Yep, I've got a BB phone - but never been interested in reading books on it.

Edit

And I have recently re-tested the Kobo Playbook app and can still enjoy reading whatever book, DRM or not, on it.

Originally Posted by robko

I doubt Blackberry is a good indicator of epub. Unless I'm mistaken, on the Playbook app anyway, you can ONLY USE kepubs (there is no option to add regular epubs to it).

You're quite right ... I should have noted that as it's the Kobo app that I use on the Playbook then it's def kepub only files.

However - on my playbook I use other apps to read epubs and PDFs; and the PDF app is excellent and using the playbook and that app really is the best way to view a PDF file.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by hwlester

The funny thing about EPUB/BlackBerry support is Overdrive Media Console added EPUB support to its BlackBerry app a little more than 2 years ago. To my knowledge, OMC was the only BlackBerry app that supported EPUB at that time.

I'm not really using my work BlackBerry for much other than email now, so I can't speak to Kobo and its support on BlackBerry.

Yes, Overdrive has proved a valuable app for me on the playbook, as have 2 other apps - one I use with epub and the other for PDFs.

The Playbook really is an excellent device to read on because of it's 7 inch form factor and of course it's in colour (which PDFs often are).

But the playbook has the usual tablet type restrictions of weight and battery life - although I do get a good 10 to 12 hours out of it.

[doubleshuffle]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Okay, so I got an email back from Kobo re continuing Customer Care issue of not getting an Epub for the ebook I bought last Sunday:

The Modern Web
By Gasston, Peter
Grand Total: $9.69

In short - I requested to be sent the Epub version of this O'Reilly published book and Kobo said:

'We have made the necessary checks, in which we are unable to locate the eBook "The Modern Web" in the ePub file format. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

We will pass on your book request to the Kobo Content Acquisitions team. However, keep in mind that it may be some time before we’re able to obtain this particular title. Our team is uploading new and hot titles every day, so keep watch!

Please note: While we have marked this ticket as ‘solved’, this is an internal classification and is not meant to confirm that your book request has, or will be, implemented, only that your request will be reviewed by a member of the Kobo Content Acquisitions Team. '

So am I getting this right: They expect you to wait for the epub, which they may or may not put up, indefinitely - and they aren't offering you your money back or at least a store credit? Although they were the ones who didn't supply the absolutely vital information about the book's format in the first place?
If that is really what they are doing here, it's about as bet as it gets in the world of customer service.

Concerning rules about the formats they offer a book in - that's an enigma shrouded in a mystery. There is one book I bought several weeks ago (NOT from Kobo in the end), which was (and still is, I checked) offered as a regular epub in every friggin' store in the world, but Kobo only have it as a kepub. Fortunately I still get the old Kobo page, so I could see what was going on. With the new design, that would have caused me no end of trouble, especially as it was an expensive book.

So, concerning the poll: of course the format of the book is essential. What else?

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by doubleshuffle

So am I getting this right: They expect you to wait for the epub, which they may or may not put up, indefinitely - and they aren't offering you your money back or at least a store credit? Although they were the ones who didn't supply the absolutely vital information about the book's format in the first place?
If that is really what they are doing here, it's about as bet as it gets in the world of customer service.

Concerning rules about the formats they offer a book in - that's an enigma shrouded in a mystery. There is one book I bought several weeks ago (NOT from Kobo in the end), which was (and still is, I checked) offered as a regular epub in every friggin' store in the world, but Kobo only have it as a kepub. Fortunately I still get the old Kobo page, so I could see what was going on. With the new design, that would have caused me no end of trouble, especially as it was an expensive book.

So, concerning the poll: of course the format of the book is essential. What else?

Kobo told me in the first email response that

"Please be advised that Kobo does not provide refunds unless there is something wrong with the eBook in question as all sales are final. However, we will be happy to with a Kobo store credit of $9.69 AUD " (It's in a post on the first or second page of this thread)

I'm not going to do anything about the store credit because I've already changed the kepub to an epub via using the extension .epub to the end of the kepub file - so I have it now as an Epub.

But I've been asking Kobo for an Epub because that's what I attempted to buy and still want from them.

The only reason that I could successfully change the kepub to an epub (apparently) is because its DRM free.

Well, I assume it's DRM free because Kobo has yet to answer that point as well (and now obviously doesn't intend to!!).

[doubleshuffle]

Ah, ok, forgot about that part where they offered you a store credit. So it's bad, but really not as bad as it could get.

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Kobo told me in the first email response that

"Please be advised that Kobo does not provide refunds unless there is something wrong with the eBook in question as all sales are final. However, we will be happy to with a Kobo store credit of $9.69 AUD " (It's in a post on the first or second page of this thread)

I'm not going to do anything about the store credit because I've already changed the kepub to an epub via using the extension .epub to the end of the kepub file - so I have it now as an Epub.

But I've been asking Kobo for an Epub because that's what I attempted to buy and still want from them.

The only reason that I could successfully change the kepub to an epub (apparently) is because its DRM free.

Well, I assume it's DRM free because Kobo has yet to answer that point as well (and now obviously doesn't intend to!!).

I see that we share a country of residence (g'day!). Declining to offer a refund on incorrectly advertised goods and services breaches our consumer laws, doesn't it? Is there any way you can bring this up with Kobo for future reference? As much as I love Kobo's discount codes, a company should not be selling internationally if they won't obey the consumer laws of another country.

[Lynx-lynx]

Seraphine hi

Oh yep, I wrote in my first email to Kobo that I suspected they were in breach of Australian Consumer laws by not adequately identifying the product prior to purchase (or even post purchase), and therefore a refund was an option. But they chose not to hear/read a jot that has been said .....

In the meantime I have re-formatted the ebook to Epub - and if I can purchase the epub version from them, I'll call it quits.

But at the moment they aren't in a position to sell it to me - because for some odd reason Kobo tell me that this O'Reilly ebook isn't in epub format at their end.

That's weird!

[hwlester]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Oh yep, I wrote in my first email to Kobo that I suspected they were in breach of Australian Consumer laws by not adequately identifying the product prior to purchase (or even post purchase), and therefore a refund was an option. But they chose not to hear/read a jot that has been said .....

"We're sorry you're having problems syncing to your Kobo Glo..."

[dixieknits]

I purchased a book today, using a discount code from Kobobooks and it did tell me it was an epub, drm free.. However, when I downloaded it, I got a zip file with about 60 numbers and letter instead of name of my book that was full of a bunch of html files????? What on earth is this...... and why did they tell me they were downloading an epub to me. I googled about it and am waiting for my son in law to come over and help me. Not a happy customer today, but usually I love Kobo and my Glo....

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by dixieknits

I purchased a book today, using a discount code from Kobobooks and it did tell me it was an epub, drm free.. However, when I downloaded it, I got a zip file with about 60 numbers and letter instead of name of my book that was full of a bunch of html files????? What on earth is this...... and why did they tell me they were downloading an epub to me. I googled about it and am waiting for my son in law to come over and help me. Not a happy customer today, but usually I love Kobo and my Glo....

If you rename it from a .zip file to a .epub it should be ok. Sometimes non drm downloads that way.